Unemployment Rate? Where will it go?

WrongHanded

Well-known member
There are about 12 million millionaires in the United States. 80% of them started out poor or middle-class.

You are free to loan money to whoever you want interest free.

Go back and read my last post again, that’s not what I said.
12 million millionaires. That's a representation of average people to you. What about the other 96% or so of the population?

Yep. People can loan money to anyone they want. But this Nation cannot continue to support itself by increasing consumer debt levels forever. I'm not sure what you don't understand about that. Guys like you will complain about the National Debt, but a Nation of Consumer Debt isn't a problem?

Capital Gains should be taxed higher. It's income. In some cases it's primary income. Tax it. You think people should work for a living? But you think it's okay for millionaires and billionaires to just live off the interest of their wealth?
 
12 million millionaires. That's a representation of average people to you.
Important statistic there was 80% of them are self made millionaire’s. It is not just the wealthy attaining more wealth, got it?
Consumer Debt isn't a problem?
it is a problem, a self-inflicted one. What’s your solution for it?
Capital Gains should be taxed higher.
Do you understand what happens to the economy when capital gains tax is raised?
You think people should work for a living? But you think it's okay for millionaires and billionaires to just live off the interest of their wealth?
I don’t care of people work for a living or not. I do care with my tax dollars are used to support able-bodied people that refuse to work.
Why should millionaires and billionaires not get interest from their wealth? Why would it be wrong for someone to live off the interest from the wealth they have acquired?
 

WrongHanded

Well-known member
Important statistic there was 80% of them are self made millionaire’s. It is not just the wealthy attaining more wealth, got it?

it is a problem, a self-inflicted one. What’s your solution for it?

Do you understand what happens to the economy when capital gains tax is raised?

I don’t care of people work for a living or not. I do care with my tax dollars are used to support able-bodied people that refuse to work.
Why should millionaires and billionaires not get interest from their wealth? Why would it be wrong for someone to live off the interest from the wealth they have acquired?
Okay, you want to win that point really badly huh? You're right and I'm wrong. Some people do create wealth from nothing. Actors, musicians, sports players, and a whole bunch of others. You happy about that now?

You're failing to understand the scope of the situation. The economy is based on people buying products and services. That's what creates a significant percentage of the jobs. Much of that is based on debt. That is everyone's problem, and that is the perspective you are missing.

You're sitting in a restaurant full of cannibals, with your head buried in a menu, wonder where the wait staff is, and worrying about what YOU'RE going to have for dinner.

A living wage is a big deal. Unemployment increasing every time there's an economic down-turn, is a problem. A tiny minority having control over most of the wealth, is a problem. The only current solution has been to keep interest rates low and keep loaning out money to support the economy. It can't last forever. You want to know what my solutions are? Do you have any solutions?
 
Some people do create wealth from nothing. Actors, musicians, sports players, and a whole bunch of others.
Mostly a whole bunch of others, probably a few in your neighborhood.
I suspect actors, musicians and sports players make up about .000 something percent.
You're right and I'm wrong.
Most intelligent thing you have said yet.
Do you have any solutions?
Yes, It is called personal responsibility.
 

Selena

Active member
Okay, you want to win that point really badly huh? You're right and I'm wrong. Some people do create wealth from nothing. Actors, musicians, sports players, and a whole bunch of others. You happy about that now?

You're failing to understand the scope of the situation. The economy is based on people buying products and services. That's what creates a significant percentage of the jobs. Much of that is based on debt. That is everyone's problem, and that is the perspective you are missing.

You're sitting in a restaurant full of cannibals, with your head buried in a menu, wonder where the wait staff is, and worrying about what YOU'RE going to have for dinner.

A living wage is a big deal. Unemployment increasing every time there's an economic down-turn, is a problem. A tiny minority having control over most of the wealth, is a problem. The only current solution has been to keep interest rates low and keep loaning out money to support the economy. It can't last forever. You want to know what my solutions are? Do you have any solutions?
buying and selling is just a way of keeping score. Actors, musicians and sports players create nothing. Once the performance is over it is gone forever. The petrochemical workers that create the plastic that makes the medium the work is recorded on create the wealth.

Consider if you will:
In 1866 a man came to Indiana after his service in the Union army. He paid $10 for a section of swampland which is less than 3 cents and acre. During the course of the summer of 1867 with his brother's help, two mules and a device called a scraper he managed to drain 160 acres of the swamp raising it's value to over 15 cents an acre. In the space of five years the other 200 acres was drained creating farm & pastureland using only the sweat equity of man and beast. A fool may argue that the land was already there but he would do so with his mouth full of food and his head empty of understanding.
 

Reloadron

Member

Unemployment Rate? Where will it go?​


Well as to the initial question posed over a year ago. I don't see any new jobs and I see increasing inflation. I live in the Cleveland. Ohio Suburbs. Avon, Ohio on the west side is home to a large Ford Motor Company manufacturing plant. Their business plan called for adding 1,500 more UAW union jobs to an electric vehicle line, millions of dollars. This was last year but today is another story. The corporate business tax was just raised so Ford replied in kind. That new line and those 1,500 nice high paying UAW jobs? Farewell Cleveland and hello Mexico.

Increasing corporate tax is not going to create business and jobs, it will stifle business and jobs. Start screwing the wealthy and they will screw you back. The wealthy are the ones who own and control business. Prior to COVID the US economy was doing very well. Today we can watch unemployment increase as jobs are not going to come back. When Biden took office I called our financial advisor and told her absolutely nothing high or even medium risk. The economy is going to continue downhill taking jobs with it. You don't increase the tax on a business and expect new hires.

Unemployment? Well as long as we overpay people not to work and tax those who create jobs I figure unemployment will continue to increase and the economy in the US will eventually come to another depression. Just my take on the subject but we are worse off now than when we began this thread over a year ago.

Ron
 

theotherwaldo

Well-known member
Yep.
Under "Biden's" plan most jobs and wealth are headed overseas, aimed at corporations that will have no connection to the United States.
Otherwise they will have to pay a huge tax penalty.
-And electric vehicles are not a particularly good source of jobs. They have very few moving parts, almost none of which can be serviced outside of the factory.
Except for windshield wipers, tires and other consumable components, EVs are pretty much sealed units that can't be serviced except by experts.
Shade tree mechanics need not apply.
 

Gridley

New member
Actors, musicians and sports players create nothing. Once the performance is over it is gone forever.

Unless someone is sneaky and records the performance. I have shelves full of CDs, DVDs, even some old VHS tapes and cassettes. Some of those artists are long gone, but their creations are still there any time I want them.

Now, if we all tried to be artists civilization would collapse - we need farmers, mechanics, truck drivers, and thousands of other types of professionals just to survive. And we need them *working*, day in and day out.

On the "how bad is it?" front I offer the following from the Bureau of Economic Analysis:
https://www.bea.gov/sites/default/f...se-programs-on-personal-income-march-2021.pdf

If I read this right (feel free to correct me, first time looking at this report), personal income in March was $24.2 trillion - a big increase from the last several months... except look partway down. "Government social benefits to persons" in March was $8.1 trillion - a THIRD of total personal income. It had been around a fifth for the last six months, which is scary enough.
 

Selena

Active member
Unless someone is sneaky and records the performance. I have shelves full of CDs, DVDs, even some old VHS tapes and cassettes. Some of those artists are long gone, but their creations are still there any time I want them.

*sigh* The artists created nothing, the tapes & cassettes were created by techs. I just adore having some tululo take me out of context then trying to disprove the introduction. Or closer to your timeline, it was Charles Gridley that captured Manila, not Dewey. The admiral just got all the credit.
 
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Gridley

New member
*sigh* The artists created nothing, the tapes & cassettes were created by techs. I just adore having some tulo take me out of context then trying to disprove the introduction. Or closer to your timeline, it was Charles Gridley that captured Manila, not Dewey. The admiral just got all the credit.

So if a tech recorded two hours of a quiet empty room you'd pay for it?
 

Reloadron

Member
So if a tech recorded two hours of a quiet empty room you'd pay for it?
Well I might not pay for it but someone would. We put it under a lavender label and market it as white or pink noise with great therapeutic value. It has a calming effect removing tension and anxiety. It's all about marketing, I mean look at what some people buy under the guise of it being music? Silence has a nice calming effect like they say lavender does. Would I pay for it? Well hell no but someone sure would. I mean just think about it.

Ron
 

Gridley

New member
Non sequitur.

You said "musicians... create nothing" "the tapes were created by techs".

So let's imagine two days.

One Day 1 our techs tape two hours of the performance of a symphony orchestra in an auditorium.

One Day 2 the same techs tape two hours of the same auditorium while nothing happens.

Both tapes are put up for sale. Which one sells for more?

The techs did the same job both times - but one has a significantly higher value. Yet according to you they taped nothing, because the performance is "gone forever" once it is over.

(BTW, USS Olympia wasn't alone at Manila Bay either)
 

Gridley

New member
Well I might not pay for it but someone would. We put it under a lavender label and market it as white or pink noise with great therapeutic value. It has a calming effect removing tension and anxiety. It's all about marketing, I mean look at what some people buy under the guise of it being music? Silence has a nice calming effect like they say lavender does. Would I pay for it? Well hell no but someone sure would. I mean just think about it.

Ron

Well, I can't argue with that. With the right sales job some idiot will pay for anything. :)

Edit to add: heck, several million idiots bought the idea that Biden had value. (Shall we get back to unemployment? Again, would welcome either confirmation that I read that BEA report right or didn't.)
 
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Reloadron

Member
Well, I can't argue with that. With the right sales job some idiot will pay for anything. :)

Edit to add: heck, several million idiots bought the idea that Biden had value. (Shall we get back to unemployment? Again, would welcome either confirmation that I read that BEA report right or didn't.)
That's a very good point. Anyone who would believe Biden will create jobs is a fool. That is unless he creates government jobs expanding the ever growing big government. :) Really glad I and my wife are retired. While the government can still screw us at least it's not as bad as it was. I feel sorry for our children and grandchildren because picking up the tab for all this paper money is going to be a bitch.

Ron
 
*sigh* The artists created nothing
The vast majority of "artists", meaning actors and musicians, annoy me to no end. That does not change the fact that they along with professional athletes create a great deal. Films people want to see, music people want to hear and events people want to watch, and they gladly pay money for all of it. Stadiums are built, millions of dollars are spent on 60 second advertisements, motels, restaurants and bars are filled. That is just the tip of it.

It isn't relevant anyway, it was just a post ignorantly attempting to prove that only wealthy or very gifted people can build wealth.
Some people do create wealth from nothing. Actors, musicians, sports players, and a whole bunch of others.
Perhaps I am wrong, I took "create wealth from nothing" as starting from modest means and building wealth through hard work, living within ones means and smart investing.
 
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Selena

Active member
The vast majority of "artists", meaning actors and musicians, annoy me to no end. That does not change the fact that they along with professional athletes create a great deal. Films people want to see, music people want to hear and events people want to watch, and they gladly pay money for all of it. Stadiums are built, millions of dollars are spent on 60 second advertisements, motels, restaurants and bars are filled. That is just the tip of it.

They "create" only a market, not a product. Keynes' "vision" is very limited and as places like Russia Cuba,and Venezuela show is not viable in the long term.
 
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