Unemployment Rate? Where will it go?

[Howland937]

Why stop with a pathetic $15hr wage or for that matter AOC's $24hr. Who lives the good life on that. How about $50 an hour and make unemployment insurance pay the same, not everyone feels like working.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1366705948874604546

Can anyone here point to a time when wage growth kept up with inflation? I can't.

I do see a lot of instances these days where people significantly over-estimate their worth. The most recent one chose to move on last week. He didn't understand that his math wasn't reasonable, expecting to be paid only 10% less than the highest paid guy with a productivity rate about 60% lower.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

Can anyone here point to a time when wage growth kept up with inflation? I can't.

2016-2019

 

[WrongHanded]

I do see a lot of instances these days where people significantly over-estimate their worth. The most recent one chose to move on last week. He didn't understand that his math wasn't reasonable, expecting to be paid only 10% less than the highest paid guy with a productivity rate about 60% lower.

I've experienced a lot of people who over-estimated their worth. But it's really interesting how we do our math sometimes. I remember working for a company that started people at $15-16 an hour through the door. The average employee could produce N number of units a week. So there's your baseline. I could produce 2xN units a week. Yes, double. Did I get paid $30-32 an hour? No, I did not. Yet I was making the company twice the ridiculously high profit margin as most of these other employees.

So when we do our math, it's not really fair to base an employee's pay on what the most productive guy is getting. Unless we can establish that he's being paid fairly. And who decides what that even is?

 

[Howland937]

I've experienced a lot of people who over-estimated their worth. But it's really interesting how we do our math sometimes. I remember working for a company that started people at $15-16 an hour through the door. The average employee could produce N number of units a week. So there's your baseline. I could produce 2xN units a week. Yes, double. Did I get paid $30-32 an hour? No, I did not. Yet I was making the company twice the ridiculously high profit margin as most of these other employees.

So when we do our math, it's not really fair to base an employee's pay on what the most productive guy is getting. Unless we can establish that he's being paid fairly. And who decides what that even is?

Well, actually you already established what would typically be considered fair wages. Paying someone enough that they continue to show up and do the work they agreed to do.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

We live in a free society. Nobody is forced, other than by their own choices, to stay in an occupation if they are not adequately paid or simply don't like it.
Employers cannot pay an employee what they are worth, they have to make a profit. Conversely, if an employer does not adequately compensate employees, the good ones will all leave for better opportunities.

People that truly want all the fruits of their own labor and creativity can, and do, start thier own businesses. Some succeed, some fail, some try again.

 

[Howland937]

2016-2019

I'll have to get back with you on that. I realize there were possibly more people earning money, but I didn't realize much jump in wages/person.

For most U.S. workers, real wages have barely budged in decades

Adjusted for inflation, today's average hourly wage has about as much purchasing power as it did in 1978. Most wage increases have gone to the highest earners.

www.pewresearch.org

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

I'll have to get back with you on that. I realize there were possibly more people earning money, but I didn't realize much jump in wages/person.

For most U.S. workers, real wages have barely budged in decades

Adjusted for inflation, today's average hourly wage has about as much purchasing power as it did in 1978. Most wage increases have gone to the highest earners.

www.pewresearch.org

Under Trump, Americans Have Seen Their Best Wage Growth In 40 Years

More than any other president in 40 years, Donald Trump has benefited working-class Americans, especially African Americans.

thefederalist.com

 

[WrongHanded]

Well, actually you already established what would typically be considered fair wages. Paying someone enough that they continue to show up and do the work they agreed to do.

From that perspective, how would you work out the ratio of increased pay for increased production? What I'm asking is if someone does 50% more work than the average worker, should they get 50% more pay? It doesn't ever seem to work like that, which I suspect is why so many people only do the bare minimum to avoid getting fired.

 

[theotherwaldo]

It's situational.
I was talking to a lady in NYC yesterday.
She was looking around for another part-time from-home job.
She's bringing in $65k and depends on food banks to keep her kids fed.

Here in South Texas, a person that's making $65k is probably doing pretty well.

This may help to explain the population shift in the new census report... .

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

From that perspective, how would you work out the ratio of increased pay for increased production?

It is called piece work. Unions hate it because it significantly increases employee production, decreasing the number of employees needed.
All self employed people are effectively on piece work.

 

[WrongHanded]

It is called piece work. Unions hate it because it significantly increases employee production, decreasing the number of employees needed.
All self employed people are effectively on piece work.

That'll be easy to keep track of in Walmart. "So how many cans of beans did you get onto the shelves today? How many rolls of toilet paper? Let's tally it all up to see how much you earned today."

Piece work is not widely applicable in the service industry.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

That'll be easy to keep track of in Walmart.

I worked at Walmart many years ago for a short time. I made exactly what I earned, not very much.
In the free market those that don’t produce much don’t get paid much.

 

[WrongHanded]

I worked at Walmart many years ago for a short time. I made exactly what I earned, not very much.
In the free market those that don’t produce much don’t get paid much.

In the free market, those with the money and property rule those that don't. We don't have a free market, and that's for the best.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

In the free market, those with the money and property rule those that don't. We don't have a free market, and that's for the best.

Interesting I did not know that.
So how much should the people putting the beans and toilet paper on the Walmart shelves be getting paid?
Will there also be laws preventing Walmart from raising the prices of those beans and rolls of toilet paper? Seems like if there wasn’t all the extra money would be going back to Walmart for more expensive beans and toilet paper anyway.

 

[WrongHanded]

Interesting I did not know that.
So how much should the people putting the beans and toilet paper on the Walmart shelves be getting paid?
Will there also be laws preventing Walmart from raising the prices of those beans and rolls of toilet paper? Seems like if there wasn’t all the extra money would be going back to Walmart for more expensive beans and toilet paper anyway.

And we're back to you want me to decide how much minimum wage should be. The truth is, there probably shouldn't be a Federal minimum wage. It should be a State issue. What keeps a 40hr per week worker afloat in one State, is not enough in another, and is more than is necessary in yet another where the cost of living in very low.

Walmart can set its prices wherever it wants. And they do. And they make massive profits, whilst paying employees very little and keeping most of them on as part-time employees to avoid paying benefits such as healthcare. And people still shop there because it's cheap. And people still work there because they have no better options. And that's how it's done, with corporate chain stores everywhere. They destroy the mom'n'pop competition and they take over.

Where does all that corporate profit go? Do you know? Do you know what the corporations do with all that money they save on avoiding providing benefits, and paying as little as possible? I'm sure it goes to a good cause. It couldn't possibly go to people who have immense wealth already. Or to buy political favors, thereby corruption our system of government. They certainly don't use it to get candidates elected to office in order to further their own agendas. It's being used to save orphans and abandoned puppies.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

Walmart can set its prices wherever it wants. And they do.

So can any retailer. If they set them to high, sales go down so profit goes down. If they set them to low, they lose money

And people still shop there because it's cheap.

Seems to contradict setting prices where they want. Or are you upset that competition leads to lower prices?

And people still work there because they have no better options.

If that were true everyone would work at Walmart.
Try and find and employer that isn't looking for good help.

Where does all that corporate profit go? Do you know?

For most, a substantial portion goes to shareholders, like me and anyone else that invests and saves for retirement.

.

 

[str8_forward]

I hope you enjoy insulting people's intelligence every chance you get. I bet you are a lot of fun at parties. And your explanation is ridiculous, many people are vastly underpaid for the work they do.

worked last year in RI for 6 month and so far this year almost 4 month in Ohio, both places unionized.
Worst places in my 45 year long work history, 3/4 of all the guys are totally overpaid for the little contributions they are making. But they sure talk a good game.
The remaining 1/4 are usually old farts and had a tougher upbringing, therefore better work ethics.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

worked last year in RI for 6 month and so far this year almost 4 month in Ohio, both places unionized.
Worst places in my 45 year long work history, 3/4 of all the guys are totally overpaid for the little contributions they are making. But they sure talk a good game.
.

This would be the union mentality I mentioned earlier.

 

[WrongHanded]

So can any retailer. If they set them to high, sales go down so profit goes down. If they set them to low, they lose money

Yep. Of course, it's hard to compete when you don't have as much buying power as the competition.

Seems to contradict setting prices where they want. Or are you upset that competition leads to lower prices?

They set prices where they want. They want them low enough to keep people coming in. But when they buy in massive bulk, the cost per unit is reduced which means they still turn big profits by making lots of low margin sales and are still cheaper than the competition. I thought that was obvious.

If that were true everyone would work at Walmart.
Try and find and employer that isn't looking for good help.

Some areas have very few jobs available besides big box stores unless the candidate has a higher education or previous experience. Many of the employers looking for employees are paying low wages for part time positions. It's the same as walmart, this isn't about one company, many of the employment opportunities available are the same line of work unde a different company name. Did you miss that? Walmart is just an example.

For most, a substantial portion goes to shareholders, like me and anyone else that invests and saves for retirement.

Yeah, 401Ks and IRAs are why the stock market is where it's at. Don't be dense. The rich get richer when they use their wealth to invest in a surging market. How do you think the S&P has gone to over $4,100 since the Covid crash where it was at $2,300? Everyone just stuffed money into their retirement accounts?! The money came from somewhere, and it wasn't out of the paychecks of working Americans. So my point is, the profits saved from low paid part time staff goes to rich investors. Or into bonuses, kickbacks, boodles, and other BS.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

Yeah, 401Ks and IRAs are why the stock market is where it's at. Don't be dense. The rich get richer when they use their wealth to invest in a surging market.

It worked for me and I started out with nothing. Explain to me how it is that investing one’s wealth is a bad thing?

Some areas have very few jobs available

It’s a free country people can move.

For a small fee I will find anyone willing to work a good paying jobFor a small fee I will find anyone willing to work a good paying job.