Worst President

Jeff White

New member
Lincoln gets my vote. Went to war to keep the south in the union, yet there is nothing in the constitution that forbids states from seceding. 600000 + died on both sides. Lincoln trashed the bill of rights, jailed his political opponents and even exiled one to Canada.

Yet he’s our most revered president. We all know the winners write the history books.
 

Ashoka

Member
I used to have little respect for Mr. Lincoln. I viewed (and still view) the Emancipation Proclamation as a cynical propaganda piece, freeing as it did only slaves in areas fighting against the Union. I also viewed State's Rights as the reason for the Civil War, and Lincoln as the man most responsible for the supremacy of Federal over state sovereignty.

With more time, knowledge, and research, I came to understand that the "State Right" in question was ALWAYS slavery. And I came to view Abraham Lincoln as the man who saved the United States. Would the US have survived in any meaningful way if the Confederacy had seceded without interference? I don't think so.

So I view Abraham Lincoln now as a man who came from humble beginnings, battled genetic deformity and a wife with crippling mental illness, who faced the greatest crisis our nation has ever faced. And through his sagacity and love for everything that made our country great, the United States survived, wounded and scarred, but intact. That was Abraham Lincoln, and I believe he is the greatest president to date, and likely that we will ever have.
 

Jeff White

New member
Would the US have survived in any meaningful way if the Confederacy had seceded without interference? I don't think so.
Why do you think that? The remaining states in the union had almost all of the industry. The Confederacy was primarily an agrarian economy. Slavery would have died a natural death and the Confederacy would have begged to get back into the union. We are the only nation that fought a war to end slavery, everyone else managed to do it peacefully.

When you can show me the provision in the constitution that forbids a state from seceding I’ll say the war was justified. The fact is, there is no such provision in the constitution.

Lincoln was a tyrant. He did not go to war to free the slaves. As you stated, the emancipation proclamation only freed slaves in the rebel states. It had no effect on legally held slaves in the north.

Lincoln suspended habeas corpus, imprisoned his political opponents, effectively exiled a member of Congress to Canada, he advocated shipping the former slaves back to Africa even though by 1865 many were second and third generation Americans who had never set foot in Africa.

Please explain why the US would have ceased to exist if the state’s had been allowed to secede. What terrible things would have happened?
 

Taliv

Moderator
Staff member
I agree with Jeff. Lincoln was by far the worst.

however, i disagree the confederates would have rejoined the Union. I expect further splintering of northern and western states would have occurred. that would have been better for everyone involved.
the world would be much different and much better
 

Taliv

Moderator
Staff member
after lincoln, i would say from worst to less worst,

Obama
Bush II
Hoover
Carter
Clinton
LBJ
Bush I

Nixon was one of our better presidents, who did a lot of good, but will always be remembered for the one really bad thing he did

Bush II, otoh, will be remembered for the one really bad thing he did, and doing nothing good to redeem himself
Obama will be remembered for accomplishing nothing, other than exacerbating red/blue tensions, and having his entire legacy wiped out 4 years later
Clinton will be remembered by republicans for economic shenanigans that resulted in great economic times during his presidency, but had to be paid for 4 years after, while all the liberals will remember him as one of the worst metoo offenders instead of for his liberal policies
 

Ashoka

Member
Why do you think that? The remaining states in the union had almost all of the industry. The Confederacy was primarily an agrarian economy. Slavery would have died a natural death and the Confederacy would have begged to get back into the union. We are the only nation that fought a war to end slavery, everyone else managed to do it peacefully.

When you can show me the provision in the constitution that forbids a state from seceding I’ll say the war was justified. The fact is, there is no such provision in the constitution.

Lincoln was a tyrant. He did not go to war to free the slaves. As you stated, the emancipation proclamation only freed slaves in the rebel states. It had no effect on legally held slaves in the north.

Lincoln suspended habeas corpus, imprisoned his political opponents, effectively exiled a member of Congress to Canada, he advocated shipping the former slaves back to Africa even though by 1865 many were second and third generation Americans who had never set foot in Africa.

Please explain why the US would have ceased to exist if the state’s had been allowed to secede. What terrible things would have happened?
Mr. White,

Please don't assume some type of adversarial relationship, here.

Lincoln also faced down a potential military coup from one of the most powerful generals of the time.

The terrible thing that COULD have happened, was a permanent schism between the Southern States and the Union. Yeah, it's possible that the South and North might have peacefully reunited after slavery ended a few years later. It's also possible that wouldn't have happened. We just don't know.
 

Taliv

Moderator
Staff member
the point though, is that while a 50 state US has accomplished some great things, scale is one of the leading contributors to tyranny. the farther away the elected officials are, the more corrupt. that's why most people are happy with their rep, but congress has like a 12-17% approval rating.
having a smaller country would make the government more representative. it's not a terrible thing.
 

Jeff White

New member
And that was worth 600000+ lives? It seems we still have a schism between the North and the South given the current drive by one political party to undo reconstruction and punish the South for the sins of their great grandparents.

I’ve read all kinds of speculation that reconstruction and hence our present nation would have been much different had Lincoln lived to serve out his second term.

taliv has a good point. 50 states, 4 territories and 320+ million people is too much for any government to handle effectively. Lincoln put the last nail in the coffin of state’s rights and started us down the road to where we are today. If we had a small federal government that only did what the constitution authorized it to do, this might work.

From 1865 to 1913 the progressive movement worked hard to consolidate power in Washington DC. The direct election of senators, the income tax and the establishment of a central bank all ensured that all power would reside in DC. That puts Woodrow Wilson at the number 2 spot on my list of worst presidents. Besides being one of the first globalists, he was a true racist.

FDR is number 3 on my list. Then would come LBJ, Bush I, Bush II and Obama.

Carter was impotent and incompetent but he didn’t harm the country the way the others did.

Clinton wanted to fundamentally change the country, was and is obscenely corrupt but for the most part he failed to really damage the country. The 1994 AWB and the near passage of Hillarycare woke the electorate and they effectively neutered him.

Nixon gets honorable mention on the list of the worst presidents, not for Watergate but for giving us wage and price controls (he must have been channeling FDR that day), the EPA and probably one of the most damaging things for freedom, revenue sharing. Federal revenue sharing put the whole federal camel under the state’s rights tent.
 

Desertrat

New member
I gotta rate LBJ pretty high for sorriness. His unGreat Society has led to half the country believing that just because they're upright and breathing, they're "Entitled!" to their beneficial use of YOUR tax dollars.
 

Mike J

New member
I would agree Lincoln was the worst. FDR, Woodrow Wilson & LBJ all contributed to our current mess. Obama is the worst I have witnessed in my adult life. I never liked that guy.
 
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