Why the death penalty should never be abolished.

[theotherwaldo]

There is some truth to this. Von Braun, in particular got off without ever really having to answer for his acts.

-Odd that you should mention Dr. von Braun.
One of my co-workers was his secretary when he was at the University of Alabama.
She said that he was just another scientist type that did a lot of work for our government.
Just like all of the others in weapons development and rocketry... .

 

[Howland937]

Right - so there are graduated penalties. With an execution it is binary - we execute them or we don't. There is no opportunity to use the kind of sliding scale of 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc.

The graduated penalties directly coincide with the graduated level of the crime. The same way punishment for the degree of theft, drug offenses and any other crime escalates based on severity. We seek to be certain that the punishments fit the crimes, therefore the sliding scale. Not all theft is grand larceny, and isn't punished as such. In states that allow capital punishment, not all homicides are capital offenses and I'd never advocate for them to be so.

 

[roscoe]

-Odd that you should mention Dr. von Braun.
One of my co-workers was his secretary when he was at the University of Alabama.
She said that he was just another scientist type that did a lot of work for our government.
Just like all of the others in weapons development and rocketry... .

Read 'The Banality of Evil: Eichman in Jerusalem'. A lot of very evil people have mild, unassuming personalities.

 

[roscoe]

The graduated penalties directly coincide with the graduated level of the crime. The same way punishment for the degree of theft, drug offenses and any other crime escalates based on severity. We seek to be certain that the punishments fit the crimes, therefore the sliding scale. Not all theft is grand larceny, and isn't punished as such. In states that allow capital punishment, not all homicides are capital offenses and I'd never advocate for them to be so.

Right. But with execution, there is no graduated scale. You are either dead or not. This is one of the problems with it.

 

[wiscoaster]

...<snip>... Governments should strive to eliminate the emotional response in their policies.

Yeah!! Tell that to the current U.S. government!!

PS - wow, what a hot thread all of sudden - some great posts here, but I don't have time today to include mine; sorry!! But, well done, nonetheless, fellow forum members!!

 

[theotherwaldo]

All too often, one culture's evil fiend is another culture's life saving scientist... and all too often, both cultures are right.

 

[Howland937]

Execution is, in many ways, the ultimate manifestation of the monopolization of power by the government.

Is it truly the monopolization of power by the government if the person is convicted by a jury of their peers and the recommended sentence comes from that same jury?
Prosecutors (government) in county courts representing the state are elected positions. Judges (also government) overseeing trials in county and/or district courts where state crimes are tried are also elected positions. So we're talking about the people elected by the rest of the people.

I understand we're not in a vacuum, and the prosecution is supposed to only deliver the facts relevant to the case. Judges are supposed to rule based on law as it's written. We see regularly that niether of these are without fault, but it's the system we have.

 

[Howland937]

Right. But with execution, there is no graduated scale. You are either dead or not. This is one of the problems with it.

Well then, perhaps some of these perpetuators of evil should be shot while they're hanging...even blindfold some kids and yell "pinata!!!"

For some offenses, the great tragedy is that they can only die once.

 

[roscoe]

Well then, perhaps some of these perpetuators of evil should be shot while they're hanging...even blindfold some kids and yell "pinata!!!"

For some offenses, the great tragedy is that they can only die once.

In general, we don't allow 'cruel and unusual punishment' in the US (the 8th Amendment).

 

[roscoe]

Is it truly the monopolization of power by the government if the person is convicted by a jury of their peers and the recommended sentence comes from that same jury?
Prosecutors (government) in county courts representing the state are elected positions. Judges (also government) overseeing trials in county and/or district courts where state crimes are tried are also elected positions. So we're talking about the people elected by the rest of the people.

I understand we're not in a vacuum, and the prosecution is supposed to only deliver the facts relevant to the case. Judges are supposed to rule based on law as it's written. We see regularly that niether of these are without fault, but it's the system we have.

Well, yes and no. Once a person is elected, they become part of the government, which has enormous coercive power. It is foundational to the US that we limit the government as much as possible, while still allowing it to get done its necessary functions (the point of representative democracy is just this - to limit institutional power). I would argue that execution is in no way necessary in this sense, but simply represents the emotional need to 'get back' at the murderer. It is entirely consistent with the principles of the US constitution to outlaw execution (which the 8th Amendment seemed to point the way towards).

 

[Howland937]

would argue that execution is in no way necessary in this sense, but simply represents the emotional need to 'get back' at the murderer.

I would have to assume then that you wouldn't buy into the idea that sometimes it's not about revenge or even punishment for that matter. It can easily be seen as removal of the bad for the greater good.

To clarify, I don't require death although I do condone it in certain circumstances. If the sentence is life and a day, meaning zero chance for parole...then that would be sufficient. As long as we come to terms with the idea that some people cannot be rehabilitated and assurances are made that those people will never know comfort in their remaining days, I'm ok with that.

Like so many other things in this life, "cruel and unusual" are subject to interpretation. Some things, for some people could never be considered too much of either.