Why the death penalty should never be abolished.

.44 Associate

Active member
Without a doubt there have been. Lots of them. Way too many. I see those as more a problem with the individual than the entire justice system. Of the 3 branches of government, my distrust for the judicial is the lowest which isn't saying a lot...but, it's what we have.
Should we throw our hands in the air and stop policing and prosecuting altogether?

We should continue to do the best we can - but until the system is greatly improved, should not levy any sentences which cannot be undone.
 

Zundfolge

Member
I have zero moral or ethical qualms with the death penalty for Heinous crimes.

That said, I'm not going to fight and die to preserve the death penalty because I don't trust The State™ to get it right enough of the time (or more to the point, NOT get it wrong enough of the time).

The idea of executing the innocent is chilling ... and considering how our society seems to be moving away from principals like "the presumption of innocence" and toward the idea that "reliance-on-facts is a white supremacist construct" I can kinda see the logic in removing The State's ability to murder people under color of law.

I think I'd rather take my changes with the murderers of the world than have to worry about some government pencil pushers screwing up and getting me or someone I care about dragged to death row.
 

WrongHanded

Well-known member
the idea that "reliance-on-facts is a white supremacist construct"
I've never heard anyone say that before. But I have heard that alternative facts are a white supremacists construct. Or words to that effect. Who was it that coined that phrase "alternative facts"? Oh that's right. Now I remember.
 

Zundfolge

Member

WrongHanded

Well-known member
Whooboy are you out of touch! 😛 You should spend some time getting up to speed on woke/intersectionality/critical race theory. It's becoming pretty mainstream these days, and it's lunacy.
Not mainstream enough that it's reach me. Must be a really big problem that affecting the stability of our Nation. Oh no, wait, that would be the alternative facts and conspiracy theories, which actually have become pretty mainstream over the past four years.
 

Zundfolge

Member
Not mainstream enough that it's reach me. Must be a really big problem that affecting the stability of our Nation. Oh no, wait, that would be the alternative facts and conspiracy theories, which actually have become pretty mainstream over the past four years.
For every Q-tard there are ten thousand SJW/intersectinalist/woke fools ... and in the institutions (education, entertainment, journalism) they are dominated by the SJW/intersectinalist/woke fools with nary a Q-tard in sight.

Focusing on the tiny number of face painted, buffalo skin wearing idiots on "the right" and ignoring the dominant cultural and intellectual forces on "the left" doesn't actually make you sound "above all the nonsense".
 

WrongHanded

Well-known member
For every Q-tard there are ten thousand SJW/intersectinalist/woke fools ... and in the institutions (education, entertainment, journalism) they are dominated by the SJW/intersectinalist/woke fools with nary a Q-tard in sight.

Focusing on the tiny number of face painted, buffalo skin wearing idiots on "the right" and ignoring the dominant cultural and intellectual forces on "the left" doesn't actually make you sound "above all the nonsense".
So your claiming there are far more SJWs than Right Wing Conspiracy Theorists? Interesting. And how many people believe the election was rigged without any proof? Exactly. This goes beyond QAnon. When a large chunk of the population believe a blatant and perpetuated lie, with no compelling evidence to back it up, I consider that far more of a problem than just those following QAnon. And let's not forget that those same people have been turned against the long established free press, and brought into a world of accusations without and facts to back them up, all based around a kind of seudo-media that backed Trump and his countless lies. Now those people are so far down the conspiracy rabbit hole, they wouldn't know the truth if it beat them with facts.

Now, I'm no fan of the anarchist/socialist/communist/SJW types in places like Portland. But I think there are far fewer of them than you're suggesting. Unless of course, you're painting with a very broad brush. Because most young adults in higher education are not politically extreme, they're just Liberals. Although to be fair, I can see how you might mistake one for the other being as how the Democrats have now been labeled by Trump's Right as "Socialists".
 

.44 Associate

Active member
So your claiming there are far more SJWs than Right Wing Conspiracy Theorists? Interesting. And how many people believe the election was rigged without any proof? Exactly. This goes beyond QAnon. When a large chunk of the population believe a blatant and perpetuated lie, with no compelling evidence to back it up, I consider that far more of a problem than just those following QAnon. And let's not forget that those same people have been turned against the long established free press, and brought into a world of accusations without and facts to back them up, all based around a kind of seudo-media that backed Trump and his countless lies. Now those people are so far down the conspiracy rabbit hole, they wouldn't know the truth if it beat them with facts.

Now, I'm no fan of the anarchist/socialist/communist/SJW types in places like Portland. But I think there are far fewer of them than you're suggesting. Unless of course, you're painting with a very broad brush. Because most young adults in higher education are not politically extreme, they're just Liberals. Although to be fair, I can see how you might mistake one for the other being as how the Democrats have now been labeled by Trump's Right as "Socialists".

Just off the top of my head, over the past few days...

Dr. Seuss books removed from publication and banned on ebay due to "racist" images like an Asian person wearing traditional garb and eating with chopsticks

Boston Public schools have dismantled their Advanced Learning Classes because there are too many whites and Asians in them

Biden passed the "Equality act", allowing biological males to compete against girls in high school sports

The Oregon Department of Education is encouraging teachers to take training in "equitable math", which holds that math is essentially racist because it focuses on things like "one correct answer" and "showing your work". (You can see the coursework for the program at https://equitablemath.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/11/1_STRIDE1.pdf in case you think I am exaggerating.)

You may believe that this stuff hasn't reached you, but you would be mistaken. As to whether it is a bigger problem than rightwing nutjobs, I have no idea. I don't see the logic in dismissing one for the other either way.
 
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WrongHanded

Well-known member
Just off the top of my head, over the past few days...

Dr. Seuss books removed from publication and banned on ebay due to "racist" images like an Asian person wearing traditional garb and eating with chopsticks

Boston Public schools have dismantled their Advanced Learning Classes because there are too many whites and Asians in them

Biden passed the "Equality act", allowing biological males to compete against girls in high school sports

The Oregon Department of Education is encouraging teachers to take training in "equitable math", which holds that math is essentially racist because it focuses on things like "one correct answer" and "showing your work". (You can see the coursework for the program at https://equitablemath.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/11/1_STRIDE1.pdf in case you think I am exaggerating.)

You may believe that this stuff hasn't reached you, but you would be mistaken. As to whether it is a bigger problem than rightwing nutjobs, I have no idea. I don't see the logic in dismissing one for the other either way.
You know, I won't dismiss the points you're making, because they are certainly valid. However, very much like the right wing conspiracy theory epidemic, a lot of this nonsense about racism coming from the left will pass. It's just a question of how long it takes. What does stick will probably do so because it has some legitimacy. But, math will always be math, despite what some overly sensitive and moronic individuals may want to believe.
 

.44 Associate

Active member
You know, I won't dismiss the points you're making, because they are certainly valid. However, very much like the right wing conspiracy theory epidemic, a lot of this nonsense about racism coming from the left will pass. It's just a question of how long it takes. What does stick will probably do so because it has some legitimacy. But, math will always be math, despite what some overly sensitive and moronic individuals may want to believe.

I hope that you are correct. I probably have reached the age where we all decide that America is going to hell in a handbasket. But people are getting fired for disagreeing with woke nonsense and critical race theory, and it's being taught in public schools all around the country. It may well pass, but it's going to leave behind a legacy, at the very least.
 

WrongHanded

Well-known member
I hope that you are correct. I probably have reached the age where we all decide that America is going to hell in a handbasket. But people are getting fired for disagreeing with woke nonsense and critical race theory, and it's being taught in public schools all around the country. It may well pass, but it's going to leave behind a legacy, at the very least.
You're right, it will leave a legacy. But what it leaves behind will likely (in my estimation) be a fraction of the extremes that some are pushing. And that fraction is probably all that is really needed to balance out what is considered by a larger proportion of society to be "systemic" or "institutional" racism/gender inequality/what have you.

Gay rights may be a good example. There was a time where homosexuals were protesting, being outrageous and exhibitionist. All in the name of equal rights. But now being gay has been normalized and accepted by society at large (even if somewhat begrudgingly). And as a result, the gay community has settled down into regular life. Sure they still have parades on occasion and some are still exhibitionists, but most seem to be just quietly living their lives and not bothering anybody about it. Sure not everyone is okay with it, but generally it's just not the hot button issue it once was. And as a result, that community is far less confrontational and "in-your-face" than it once was. Which makes it easier for those that disagree to ignore it, and get on with their own lives.

Unfortunately, the pendulum often swings farther in opposition each time it goes back and forth, and that is truly a problem that must be addressed.
 
While I agree the death penalty should never be abolished, I also believe the burden placed on the government which levies this power should NEVER be made easy or short.

A lot of us sometimes grit our teeth at how long some remain on "death row" between conviction and execution, but honestly...I don't care.

The death penalty is a frightening power for any government to have.
 

Reloadron

Member
We just had a local case where a group of men (probably cartel) opened fire on a house and managed to kill a six year old girl in her bed.
Three of the men have been caught so far.
They are not being held without bond
Do you think that they will get the death penalty?
I guess it depends on the state? Many states have abolished the death penalty. Here in Ohio while we have it really matters not when it takes 20 - 30 years to get it done. Currently the new argument is the method used? How stupid is that? Hanging, firing squad, electric chair or even lethal injection, I am fine with any of them, I just want the bastard dead. Here in the US we have now a judicial system more enmeshed with the rights of criminals than victims. Death row has become little more than a feeding trough for attorneys and judges.

Anyway I am fine with capital punishment as long as there is no question of guilt. I am also for expedient execution in those cases.

Ron
 
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