Who's Been Vaccinated?

roscoe

Well-known member
So just to be clear - @roscoe is incoherent.
-And that liberal mantra, "My body, my choice" is brutally ironic when the Left is trying to create Corona Concentration Camps and Corona Transit Papers... .

Talk about incoherent - "Corona Concentration Camps"?

People need to remember that vaccination mandates have been with us a long time, starting with George Washington. Because it is not only about 'your body'. The disease is communicable. If you want to catch a non-communicable disease, go ahead! Stab yourself with a rusty nail and get tetanus! No one will stop you from doing that.
 

roscoe

Well-known member
Join the list of people who've blocked roscoe. Don't feed the troll. :)

Blocking my unpopular opinions is an act of cowardice on a site like this, where the point is to debate. Go somewhere else for an echo chamber if you can't handle open debate.
 

Fine Figure of a Man

Well-known member
Not good news.
"Waterford has the highest rate of vaccination in the country with 99.7 per cent of adults over the age of 18 (as registered in the last census) fully vaccinated. The county has gone from having one of the lowest rates of Covid-19 infection in Ireland to one of the highest."
 

wiscoaster

Well-known member
Talk about incoherent - "Corona Concentration Camps"?

People need to remember that vaccination mandates have been with us a long time, starting with George Washington.
This is actually true. Though the required smallpox innoculations applied only to his enlisted soldiers and his officers and not to the general population. When you become a soldier you obligate yourself to follow orders. One of those orders might be to get innoculated against an illness that could render the affected soldier unable to fight. I don't think the example provided by @roscoe is applicable to today's Covid-19 vaccine mandates for the general population, and I don't think it should be used as an example or a precedent to justify them. It's an entirely different situation.

I don't block @roscoe because sometimes he needs to get called to account when he misleadingly provides a scrap of true information in an inappropriate or immaterial application in order to justify his untenable narratives. Otherwise some new member might read one of his posts and think he makes perfect sense. He's very clever with how he uses and manipulates his language to make his nonsense sound reasonable and sensible.
 
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Fine Figure of a Man

Well-known member
I don't block @roscoe because sometimes he needs to get called to account when he misleadingly provides a scrap of true information in an inappropriate or immaterial application in order to justify his untenable narratives. Otherwise some new member might read one of his posts and think he makes perfect sense. He's very clever with how he uses and manipulates his language to make his nonsense sound reasonable and sensible.
I don't block anyone. I consider it a chickenshit way to deal with those you don't often agree with.
 

Skidmarx

Member
Blocking my unpopular opinions is an act of cowardice on a site like this, where the point is to debate. Go somewhere else for an echo chamber if you can't handle open debate.
Fa-nat-ic ......... Fanatic....one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

Roscoe, I blocked you once and you talked me out of that with that same BS sort of reply. I'm not afraid of your simplistic politicized drivel, I'm simply bored with giving you a soapbox to stand on and spout it. If you were doing anything but fanning the flames it would be different. How strongly are you going to stand behind the government when they outlaw salt, and meat, and fried foods? It's been proven that a whole food plant based diet does more to cure heart disease than all the drugs combined. What about cancer and known carcinogens? The 2 leading causes of death in America, diseases that have killed more people in the last 5 years than covid ever will. Don't feed me that line of sh!t that you're concerned with preservation of life. Why aren't you down on alcohol and all the wasted lives from drunk driving.

I know, go ahead and spout your self serving notions, but realize that most of us here realize what you you are doing. Deep down you must be a frightened little boy, and for that, you have my sympathy.
 

theotherwaldo

Well-known member
From Yahoo news
October 7, 2020

Sen. Kamala Harris of California said during Wednesday night’s vice presidential debate with Vice President Mike Pence that she does not trust the administration’s push to rush a coronavirus vaccine into production.

“If the public health professionals, if Dr. [Anthony] Fauci, if the doctors tell us that we should take it, I’ll be the first in line to take it. Absolutely,” Harris said during the live debate in Salt Lake City, when she was asked if Americans should take a vaccine, if the Trump administration were to approve one either before or after the election. “But if Donald Trump tells us that we should take it. I’m not taking it.”

Politicized medicine... .
 

str8_forward

Well-known member
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roscoe

Well-known member
Fa-nat-ic ......... Fanatic....one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

Roscoe, I blocked you once and you talked me out of that with that same BS sort of reply. I'm not afraid of your simplistic politicized drivel, I'm simply bored with giving you a soapbox to stand on and spout it. If you were doing anything but fanning the flames it would be different. How strongly are you going to stand behind the government when they outlaw salt, and meat, and fried foods? It's been proven that a whole food plant based diet does more to cure heart disease than all the drugs combined. What about cancer and known carcinogens? The 2 leading causes of death in America, diseases that have killed more people in the last 5 years than covid ever will. Don't feed me that line of sh!t that you're concerned with preservation of life. Why aren't you down on alcohol and all the wasted lives from drunk driving.

I know, go ahead and spout your self serving notions, but realize that most of us here realize what you you are doing. Deep down you must be a frightened little boy, and for that, you have my sympathy.
You know, your whole post makes no sense. Saying that one thing is dangerous, therefore we shouldn't ban another dangerous thing is just poor logic. Any high schooler sees the fallacy in that. It like saying smoking is dangerous therefore we shouldn't put seatbelts in cars.

What notions are self-serving? How? Do I make money from the vaccine?

Finally, calling me frightened when I square off against you? Ha! That is awesome. I am the lone liberal here. Do I sound frightened? Oh man, I can't wait to tell my wife that one. She will howl with laughter.

But honestly - if it makes you feel better, like you are more in control, go ahead and block me. It makes no difference to me. Either way, my arguments stand.
 

wiscoaster

Well-known member
You know, your whole post makes no sense. Saying that one thing is dangerous, therefore we shouldn't ban another dangerous thing is just poor logic. Any high schooler sees the fallacy in that. It like saying smoking is dangerous therefore we shouldn't put seatbelts in cars.
No, your assertion that it's poor logic makes no sense because you're totally ignoring the impacts of the probability of harm and the rate of harm done to innocents not involved in the decision to take the known risks. Taking the probabilities and rates into account makes the extreme reaction to the one risk totally out of line when put next to the reactions to the other risks mentioned, and so your dismissing of that observation is what really makes no sense.

The annual death rate per one million population in the US for vehicle accidents is about 1.4 (2020 data, source: NHTSA). The annual death rate per one million population in the US for Covid-19 is about 0.002 (source: my own math). So the risk of death from driving is in excess of 700 times more risky than the risk of death from Covid. That's real life and real data. Yet are we so much in fear of driving that we risk damaging our society, our culture, our economy, our national security, our very future? No. We accept it without a second thought. But that has been the reaction to Covid. Driven largely by entities seeking to gain something from the situation and propagated by their allies to put us in fear of a risk we need not fear. Skidmarx's reaction to your comments in light of the actual situation make complete sense to me.
 
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roscoe

Well-known member
No, your assertion that it's poor logic makes no sense because you're totally ignoring the impacts of the probability of harm and the rate of harm done to innocents not involved in the decision to take the known risks. Taking the probabilities and rates into account makes the extreme reaction to the one risk totally out of line when put next to the reactions to the other risks mentioned, and so your dismissing of that observation is what really makes no sense.

The annual death rate per one million population in the US for vehicle accidents is about 1.4 (2020 data, source: NHTSA). The annual death rate per one million population in the US for Covid-19 is about 0.002 (source: my own math). So the risk of death from driving is in excess of 700 times more risky than the risk of death from Covid. That's real life and real data. Yet are we so much in fear of driving that we risk damaging our society, our culture, our economy, our national security, our very future? No. We accept it without a second thought. But that has been the reaction to Covid. Driven largely by entities seeking to gain something from the situation and propagated by their allies to put us in fear of a risk we need not fear. Skidmarx's reaction to your comments in light of the actual situation make complete sense to me.

No - the logic of Skidmarx argument is poor - the danger of one thing cannot ever inform about the danger of another. Each is an independent statistical phenomenon, to be assessed separately on a risk/benefit basis. His reaction was emotional, not logical. Not to mention, poorly informed. Perhaps he reads the wrong news sources.

As to your math, you may want to re-examine your figures. According to current data (see link below), deaths per million in the US from COVID for April 1, 2020 - March 301, 2021 was 1,651 deaths/million. According to IIHS (see link below), the death rate for car accidents in the US in 2019 was 110 deaths/million (NHTSA data are similar at 101 per million Americans). That is less than 1/10 of the COVID death rate. 549,429 Americans died from COVID during that year, whereas annual auto deaths range in the ~35,000 range.

If half a million Americans died every year in car accidents, you may be sure the US gov would do something about it, spurred by the outraged public.

 
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wiscoaster

Well-known member
700,000 / 350,000,000 = 0.002 so, no, my math for Covid fatality rate is correct. That's the per person rate. If anything, it's too high because I just took the entire death toll divided by the entire population and didn't annualize it. The probability of dying from Covid within the span of one year is less than the rate I computed.

I'll grant you the correction on the NHTSA data; I misread their rate as fatalities per million instead of fatalities per hundred million. So I was off by a factor of 100, and you can color me "oops" with respect to my math and my driving comparison. "700 times" did look a bit outrageous and I should have know better to check my own math. But on only one cup of coffee when posted..... It's good to know somebody's checking. Hah! Even you, Roscoe.

.... still ....

If faced with a probability of 0.002 of dying from Covid I'm damm well going to ignore it. So go ahead and throw out my entire second paragraph in my post above and I'm still going to come to the same conclusion and go about my life the same way I normally would, as much as possible as I can given the other idiots panicking over 0.002, I'm not panicking.
 
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roscoe

Well-known member
700,000 / 350,000,000 = 0.002 so, no, my math for Covid fatality rate is correct. That's the per person rate. If anything, it's too high because I just took the entire death toll divided by the entire population and didn't annualize it. The probability of dying from Covid within the span of one year is less than the rate I computed.

I'll grant you the correction on the NHTSA data; I misread their rate as fatalities per million instead of fatalities per hundred million. So I was off by a factor of 100, and you can color me "oops" with respect to my math and my driving comparison. "700 times" did look a bit outrageous and I should have know better to check my own math. But on only one cup of coffee when posted..... It's good to know somebody's checking. Hah! Even you, Roscoe.

.... still ....

If faced with a probability of 0.002 of dying from Covid I'm damm well going to ignore it. So go ahead and throw out my entire second paragraph in my post above and I'm still going to come to the same conclusion and go about my life the same way I normally would, as much as possible as I can given the other idiots panicking over 0.002, I'm not panicking.
Right. .002 > 1,651/million, because you took the whole time period, not just a year's worth, (which would make the data comparable to the road death data). But any way you slice it, COVID is more than 10x as deadly as road deaths, for the country. So, when we look at risk, it counts as a big one. However, now that we are mostly vaccinated in the US, the numbers are dropping off.
 

wiscoaster

Well-known member
... However, now that we are mostly vaccinated in the US, the numbers are dropping off.
No, the numbers aren't dropping off due to vaccinations. It's dropping because that's the normal and natural course of events for a viral pandemic.

Sorry, I don't have the time, energy or motivation right now to check your math, but even assuming your 10 times factor is correct, the probability is still so small as to be negligible and reasonably ignored when going about normal, everyday life. As normal, reasonable people do when driving to work or shopping or play or school.

You're still not scaring me and no normal, reasonable person should be scared.
 
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Howland937

Active member
Anybody have the math on how many people per million legally defend themselves or family member with a firearm annually?

Personally, I know waaaaaay more folks who were killed in a car wreck, fell out of a tree stand, got electrocuted, or died of Covid than people I know who've drawn a gun in a defensive encounter.
I still carry at least one every day.
 
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