Where do we go from here?

Howland937

Active member
Honest question for anyone who wants to give a reasonable answer. What's the best course for this country now? Continuing on the divided path, kicking and screaming because things didn't go our way? I understand a large segment of the population has used that approach for the last several years. Is that going to be the justification for everyone else to act the same way?

See, based on some of the things I've posted here most people would not believe that I'm pretty conservative. I believe strongly in individual liberty and self determination. Im not fond of the idea that people from California, NY, Texas, WA or wherever get to elect people to decide what's best for me. But that's the boat we're in. Some people are ready to scuttle the boat, but I'm not. I still believe that, regardless of flaws, this is the best country that's ever existed throughout the history of this planet.

I've had quite a few people who have seemed to advocated or at least entertained the thought of civil war. I've told every one of them how idiotic that is. It's not hard to find countries who've been engaged or are still engaged in civil war in recent times. Maybe not as "first world" as we are, but still pretty decently developed. Check and see what becomes of infrastructure in those countries in a very short time. Medical services-done. Clean water-done. Power grid-done. Don't need anything of that? Good for you. A lot of people do and I'm not willing to write them off just because the election didn't go my way.

Making threats, yelling and accusing aren't solving problems. Niether are name calling and trying to intimidate people who disagree. Republicans will never win another presidential election unless they distance themselves from this behavior. So, tell me. How do we really make it better?
 
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WrongHanded

Well-known member
I think the first thing is getting Covid under control with some level of herd immunity via vaccines. Then the economy will come back, because that's the only reason it went downhill.

An investment in renewable energy (and hopeully nuclear), along with some roads and bridges infrastructure renewal will provide a boost to employment, and go a long way with those who care about climate change (such as myself).

Biden and the Dems need to leave guns and internet freedom of speech alone. Simply put, they need to be very careful where they tread when it comes to individual rights. They would also do well to leave SCOTUS be.

A single payer healthcare or Medicare for all program is now the only clear path to affordable healthcare in this country. They need to do that for the benefit of the vast majority.

All that will go a long way towards getting things back closer to some sort of normalcy.
 

Ranb

Member
I'm not an anti vaxxer at all, but I5 will be a few years before I would even think about taking this vaccine. I went to school with too many Thalidimide babies.
Research in MRNA vaccines has been ongoing for decades. I'm getting it as soon as possible to avoid spreading an infection to others. It is the least I can do as a shipyard worker who is not able to distance myself from others all the time.

Or I could resign from my job and retire early. I'd rather keep on working.
 

theotherwaldo

Well-known member
I think the first thing is getting Covid under control with some level of herd immunity via vaccines. Then the economy will come back, because that's the only reason it went downhill.

An investment in renewable energy (and hopeully nuclear), along with some roads and bridges infrastructure renewal will provide a boost to employment, and go a long way with those who care about climate change (such as myself).

Biden and the Dems need to leave guns and internet freedom of speech alone. Simply put, they need to be very careful where they tread when it comes to individual rights. They would also do well to leave SCOTUS be.

A single payer healthcare or Medicare for all program is now the only clear path to affordable healthcare in this country. They need to do that for the benefit of the vast majority.

All that will go a long way towards getting things back closer to some sort of normalcy.
Covid is like the flu in that the vaccines are, at best, good for about a year. Mutations happen - fast.

I've been in and out of the alternative energy field since the 1970s. Got involved in using wood waste to power lumber mills, then did structural steel for the Diablo Canyon Nuclear Power Plant. Worked on some of the earliest hybrid gas-electric automobiles. Lots of other projects along the way.

Insofar as transportation infrastructure goes, I've worked on the designs of bridges and roads in Alabama and Georgia. Got involved in redesigning schools (The University of Alabama), building ships (the Perry class frigates} and construction facilities (the Todd Pacific L. A. ship lift)

Now I'm just a librarian in a small border town. I like it here.

My experience is that the more that the federal government gets involved in a project, the bigger the mess that results.

This is true in transportation, infrastructure, medical care, energy creation and distribution, rights and laws and anything else that they dabble in.

Never ask the distant emperor for help. You might get it.
 

Ranb

Member
Single payer, are you serious? Watch your taxes go thru the roof. And then who decides what treatment you get, especially after you reach a certain age? If you think it won't happen, you must be naive.
While single payer is expensive, it might be less expensive than the trillions that we already spend on health care.

It has always been my experience with government paid health care that I, or my family member, were told by a doctor that they recommended certain courses of action. Then we decided what treatment to have. This was the case with cancer, hernia repairs, broken bones and other injury/illnesses we experienced.

How do you think it will change if government sponsored health care is extended to more than the military?
 

WrongHanded

Well-known member
Single payer, are you serious? Watch your taxes go thru the roof. And then who decides what treatment you get, especially after you reach a certain age? If you think it won't happen, you must be naive.
Err.... Medicare already provided for the majority of retired people in this country, does it not? Are they facing death panels who decide their fate?
Or do you think you'll be able to afford private health insurance to cover the cost of healthcare once you retire? I wonder how high your premium would be then.

You're so worried about taxes for a single-payer system. The insurance companies can and do make a 20% profit per year, yet each year they charge more for less. The hospitals keep charging more too. A single-payer system would control costs due to the "buying power" of the majority of Americans using it. And it would to so without the 20% profits. You also seem to think it would be working people that would cover this cost. But there's no reason not to make high earners pay more, or large companies. The people at the top financially, often make their money off the backs of those below them.
 

WrongHanded

Well-known member
Covid is like the flu in that the vaccines are, at best, good for about a year. Mutations happen - fast.

I've been in and out of the alternative energy field since the 1970s. Got involved in using wood waste to power lumber mills, then did structural steel for the Diablo Canyon Nuclear Power Plant. Worked on some of the earliest hybrid gas-electric automobiles. Lots of other projects along the way.

Insofar as transportation infrastructure goes, I've worked on the designs of bridges and roads in Alabama and Georgia. Got involved in redesigning schools (The University of Alabama), building ships (the Perry class frigates} and construction facilities (the Todd Pacific L. A. ship lift)

Now I'm just a librarian in a small border town. I like it here.

My experience is that the more that the federal government gets involved in a project, the bigger the mess that results.

This is true in transportation, infrastructure, medical care, energy creation and distribution, rights and laws and anything else that they dabble in.

Never ask the distant emperor for help. You might get it.
There is such a thing as sub-contracting you know. I don't literally expect the government to get into the bridge building business (build a few myself btw).

There is infrastructure that needs replacing. The power grid is part of that. And if the energy companies can't be trusted to put in adequate power lines that don't cause wildfires, maybe someone else should be doing it anyway.
 

theotherwaldo

Well-known member
This is a really odd time to be rebuilding the power grid. Between the neighborhood-level mini-nuclear plants, the emergence of solar, wind and other new power sources, solar roof/power-wall units and other distributed storage systems and the needs of electrified transportation, the new standards for a power grid may be quite different from what is currently used.

Factoring in the de-industrialization of the shrinking cities and the expanding mobility of the urban population, I wouldn't try to do more than patch the current grid as well as possible while trying to keep up with the new technologies.

And if you're referring to the California wild fires, those had less to do with CPL practices and more to do with poor forestry policies... .
 

Ranb

Member
I'm just going to submerge myself like an alligator and watch the frenzy of the current crop of swamp beasts until they are replaced by another crop... .
That will not help anyone at all, including yourself. I will continue to remain politically active as much as possible. If you do not oppose the things you do not accept, then that is like accepting them in the end.
 

CrustyCoot

Active member
Err.... Medicare already provided for the majority of retired people in this country, does it not? Are they facing death panels who decide their fate?
Or do you think you'll be able to afford private health insurance to cover the cost of healthcare once you retire? I wonder how high your premium would be then.

You're so worried about taxes for a single-payer system. The insurance companies can and do make a 20% profit per year, yet each year they charge more for less. The hospitals keep charging more too. A single-payer system would control costs due to the "buying power" of the majority of Americans using it. And it would to so without the 20% profits. You also seem to think it would be working people that would cover this cost. But there's no reason not to make high earners pay more, or large companies. The people at the top financially, often make their money off the backs of those below them.
No, working people foot the bill to cover the cost of Medicare. Never forget, the govt pays for NOTHING. The taxpayers do
 

CrustyCoot

Active member

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Ranb

Member
No, working people foot the bill to cover the cost of Medicare. Never forget, the govt pays for NOTHING. The taxpayers do
So do the non-working rich and the corporations. Everyone knows that "paid for the by government" actually means "taxpayer paid". Do you have anything new?
 

WrongHanded

Well-known member
No, working people foot the bill to cover the cost of Medicare. Never forget, the govt pays for NOTHING. The taxpayers do
And companies. Both employee and employer pay in. There's no reason the scale can't be modified so multi-billion dollar corporations pay a far higher percentage. I know you just want it to not work, but clearly you have no good alternative or you would already have mentioned it. Medicare for all is the best solution for everyone who cannot afford to pay medical bills in cash on the spot.

And of course I realize the taxpayers finance government spending.
 
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WrongHanded

Well-known member
Tired of others wanting to spend more of my hard earned dollars. I bust my ass. as I'm sure you do. Wouldn't it be nice if we could keep more of it to take care of ourselves and our own?
Sure it would. But without society, you're just a guy working at a 'rock and stick' level of technology. So rather than naysaying every idea in favor of your own paycheck, perhaps consider that without society you wouldn't have a job. Or much of anything else.
 
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