The "Justice" system is broken

Grunt

Member
Three stories from today demonstrate that the so called "Justice" system is broken.


The ringleader has over 230 FELONY charges on his record. He's 26 years old. He has 15 convictions and two stints in prison. 230 charges and only 15 convictions. This tells me that the "Justice" system is dropping the ball, dropping charges, pleading down 94% of the charges in this person's case. Of those 15 FELONY convictions he's been in prison TWICE at 26 years old.

This oxygen thief shouldn't have been walking the streets. Stop. Period. End of story.


Another of Obama's catch and release subjects. An illegal alien that drives drunk and kills three. Out on bond after a vicious assault. I'm really sick and tired of illegal aliens killing American citizens. Illegals should be rounded up, branded, and sent back to their home countries. The brand makes it easy to identify those that come back. Illegally coming back should be a death penalty.

We don't even have to round them all up. Pass and enforce laws that make it illegal to get a job, rent housing, cash a check, send money out of the US without showing ID. Those that violate the law by employing illegals, renting housing, cashing checks or helping them send money should face a mandatory 10 years in prison. Also reverse the Supreme Court decision that the children of illegals get a free education. No benefits for families of illegals. No food stamps, no welfare, no birthright citizenship for those born to illegals, no public housing.

If they can't get a job, get a place to live and there are no benefits they will leave.


Now the last example.

Rape of a child. One year deferred sentence. Slate wiped clean if he doesn't commit another crime during that year.

BULLSHIT. Put a bullet in this monster's skull and be done with it.

The Liberal Left has perverted the "Justice" system in this country to where criminals have more rights than the innocent. This must stop if we are to regain our country.
 

Alexx1401

Member
And people blame the cops; it isn't them, it's the DA offices

Yes but the real "problem" still lays squarely in the lap of voters. This mess where criminals are shown a revolving door, go in, go out, make more victims is voters. They vote the people into office who allow this. Then they keep voting the same people back in. Only way this changes is when some start getting kicked to the curb by the voters. ?
 

Magnum

Well-known member
See Kim Foxx , swamp monster of Chicago. Won't prosecute theft under $1,000 . turns everyone loose with no prosecution , same moron that dismissed charges on jussie smollet. Outrageously crooked protege of ed burke who's under indictment for trying to shake down burger king for bribes in exchange for building permits they sought . it's kind of a running joke that Illinois has the best politicians money can buy, all our governors go to prison . the last president from this state is one of the most evil and anti-American skum monsters from hell you'll ever see - O-dumbo. Crime & murder is off the charts.
 

Grunt

Member
See Kim Foxx , swamp monster of Chicago. Won't prosecute theft under $1,000 . turns everyone loose with no prosecution , same moron that dismissed charges on jussie smollet. Outrageously crooked protege of ed burke who's under indictment for trying to shake down burger king for bribes in exchange for building permits they sought . it's kind of a running joke that Illinois has the best politicians money can buy, all our governors go to prison . the last president from this state is one of the most evil and anti-American skum monsters from hell you'll ever see - O-dumbo. Crime & murder is off the charts.

To be truthful two of the three Presidents from Illinois have been stinkers.

Lincoln killed states rights.
Obama....well I think we all know about that one.

Grant actually did a lot of good and some bad.
 

Alexx1401

Member
To be truthful two of the three Presidents from Illinois have been stinkers.

Lincoln killed states rights.
Obama....well I think we all know about that one.

Grant actually did a lot of good and some bad.
Lincoln did some AMAZING things to hold the union together. When I read of it it's often hard to fathom what he was able to get away with. It seems to have been all about "the ends justifies the means" for sure. In more recent times the state Governors there seem to have an amazing hard time not ending up in prison. Seems like there is forever at least one of the former Governors from there in some Fed lockup ?
 
Well, I will argue with a bit of this.

The "sex offender" was accused - that is an important word, here - by a 14 year old who could provide no corraborating evidence. We still are more-or-less in the brainless "#metoo" era and should continue to be vigilant. The lone felony charge was related to a picture of a 17 year old who is now married to the fellow, and who claims to have taken it herself. So the guy may or may not be a monster, but I'm not quite ready to hang him as a "child molester", myself.

With regard to illegal immigration - yes, a country has a right to defend its own borders. If that is the will of the people, then we can round them up and kick them out. My wife, who legally immigrated in 1989, is as staunch an opponent of illegals as anyone. I am less so. I am happy to have decent, hard working people in this country, and if the problem is only their legal status, then the solution is simply to legalize them.

The guy with 230 felony convictions is simply an asshole who should have been hanged years ago.
 

Grunt

Member
Illegals have much more than their legal status.

1. They are, for the most part, commuting identity theft in order to appear legal to work.
2. Their children are a strain on many school districts.
3. They lower the base wage in many areas.
4. Many of them are engaged in tax fraud. Either by working under the table or outright fraud.
 
Illegals have much more than their legal status.

1. They are, for the most part, commuting identity theft in order to appear legal to work.
2. Their children are a strain on many school districts.
3. They lower the base wage in many areas.
4. Many of them are engaged in tax fraud. Either by working under the table or outright fraud.

Points 1 and 4 still are addressed by simply removing their illegal status. Points 2 and 3 are not established facts.

At any rate, I live near the border and have known my share of illegals. Most of them were good men who worked hard and would have made model citizens, had the government allowed it. A few of them were bad apples who needed to be deported (or shot) ASAP. So I believe that our current system has failed both in the sense that we've made it too hard for the good ones to become citizens, and too easy for the bad ones to be here at all.
 
Well, the little town that I live in shares a border with Mexico.
Most of my neighbors are hispanic and many of them have family in Mexico.
They greatly resent these illegal immigrants because they are basically trying to push to the front of the line and then steal legal immigrant status.
Becoming a legal immigrant is expensive and time-consuming. Becoming an American citizen is much more so.
Line-jumping, identity-stealing and job-stealing are not activities that endear these people to those that did things in a legal way.
As a librarian that works in a town that actually has a bridge to Tamaulipas, Mexico, I am often busy helping folks to fulfill the requirements to acquire or maintain legal status in the U.S.
I often get quite an ear full on this subject... .
 
As I mentioned earlier, my wife and her family are legal immigrants. They share that resentment toward illegals, and it's perfectly reasonable.

By the same token, they - along with most immigrants legal and otherwise - are hard working, decent people who are a net gain for the country. Hence my argument that any sensible immigration reform should include making it easier for the good ones to get in.
 

Ivy Mike

Member
rah rah rah!!! More law and order!!! Longer sentences!!!

Gee, it's not working and we're just filling our prisons?

I know, lets have more law and order and mandatory minimums!!!


At what point do we stop with the clearly failed sin and punishment doctrine, and begin addressing the real causes of crime in this country? We have a rampant poverty problem and a system that happily pushes the poor towards destitution.
Systemic change and social services that support the populace are the answer.
 

Selena

Member
In the question of so called illegal immigrants... Can a nation really expect productive law abiding citizens from a group that flaunts their contempt of our laws by coming here to begin with.
 
rah rah rah!!! More law and order!!! Longer sentences!!!

Gee, it's not working and we're just filling our prisons?

I know, lets have more law and order and mandatory minimums!!!


At what point do we stop with the clearly failed sin and punishment doctrine, and begin addressing the real causes of crime in this country? We have a rampant poverty problem and a system that happily pushes the poor towards destitution.
Systemic change and social services that support the populace are the answer.

I disagree with the idea that the justice system has failed by giving harsher sentences. It does not seem to me that that is the direction in which we have been going at all.

I also disagree with the premise that we have a "rampant" poverty problem. While there is poverty in the U.S., the overall standard of living continues to improve, and it appears that quite a bit of poverty is transient - many people go into poverty and then come out, or start out impoverished (in a starving college student sense) and then get a job and start their lives.

Moreover, social services have exploded over the past few decades, to the point where we could have eradicated quite a bit of poverty simply by eliminating the programs designed to combat it and given the money directly to the poor, and yet poverty still exists. Exactly how much do we need to spend on social services before admitting that they might not be the answer?
 

Ivy Mike

Member
I disagree with the idea that the justice system has failed by giving harsher sentences. It does not seem to me that that is the direction in which we have been going at all.

I also disagree with the premise that we have a "rampant" poverty problem. While there is poverty in the U.S., the overall standard of living continues to improve, and it appears that quite a bit of poverty is transient - many people go into poverty and then come out, or start out impoverished (in a starving college student sense) and then get a job and start their lives.

Moreover, social services have exploded over the past few decades, to the point where we could have eradicated quite a bit of poverty simply by eliminating the programs designed to combat it and given the money directly to the poor, and yet poverty still exists. Exactly how much do we need to spend on social services before admitting that they might not be the answer?
I suppose that depends on what your goals for the justice system are. If you're interested in rehabilitation, then longer, harsher sentences are a clear failure. If your goal is just to lock people up punitively then it does a pretty good job.

Higher standards of living don't necessarily mean poverty is being reduced. Lots of things are cheaper today than they were a few generations ago, thanks to various trade agreements. Things that were previously seen as luxury goods like large televisions, no longer are. The prices have come down considerably on items like that. It takes less time to buy a number of common goods. Other basics though have gotten considerably more expensive like health care. And while healthcare does a lot more than it used to, the costs are passed on to the consumers just as they always have been. So much so, that we crafted an entire insurance system in the 70s to address rising costs.

Social services are something of an answer to poverty but the USA is famously bad at implementing them. Our subsidized insurance programs like CHIP and Medicaid vary widely in their efficacy because each state is in charge of how it works and how it's funded.
But comparing them to other countries who have more centralized schemes in place, the US is amateur hour. And not just the single payer systems; Germany uses a multi-payer public/private system that is very effective. Germany also implemented price controls to keep costs in check. In Germany, you are required to select a medical plan which is funded by a combination of employer contributions, employee contributions and government subsidy all depending on your income level. The wealthiest Germans get no subsidies. But the price controls and treatment options make the system extremely effective if not rather complex.
But when you compare this to the US, you notice marked differences in service delivery and costs. The real issue though is that Germany has instituted protections to prevent healthcare from being a serious financial burden. You don't go bankrupt in Germany because of a hospital bill and that in and of itself, reduces poverty. Implementing systems to support the working class has a very clear effect in reducing the effects of poverty.

I do like the idea of a universal basic income, effectively eliminating programs in favor of cash payments but you have some pretty big hazards there. For example, what do you do when a drug addict single mother blows her UBI money on crack and can't buy food or take the kids to a doctor? Should the children suffer because we went for extreme efficiency and eliminated mroe substantial safety nets?
 
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