Responding to crazy...

WrongHanded

Active member
But they condone it by not condemning it. Any organization that expects to be treated as legitimate can't stand by while people identified as members of their group (correctly or not) cause such destruction and terror. But there gas been no such statement that I've seen, just that property is less important than lives, which everyone should agree with but let's not minimize people's life work and means of living as nothing.
Just because you haven't see BLM protesters condemning the violence and destruction, doesn't mean they haven't been. I've seen quite of a lot of such statements, which have been broadcast on mainstream media. Often from the family members of the very people who've die (whether justifiably, excusably or otherwise) at the hands of law enforcement. But also from local leaders, during protests. You might consider broadening your media intake if this is news to you. If only to get an alternative perspective. People can "report" whatever lies they can get away with, but when there's video and audio of it happening in the moment, that's not something easily dismissed as fake news.
 

Magnum

Well-known member
Just because you haven't see BLM protesters condemning the violence and destruction, doesn't mean they haven't been
That would be from individuals , I'd be interested to see a statement from the organization if it exists. I heard they've taken in over $50 million from donations , that means they've been legitimized and are clearly wide spread, they should have an official policy of peaceful discourse and nonviolence. If that isn't the case I will continue to view them as a threat to my safety. Know what I mean?
 

WrongHanded

Active member
That would be from individuals , I'd be interested to see a statement from the organization if it exists. I heard they've taken in over $50 million from donations , that means they've been legitimized and are clearly wide spread, they should have an official policy of peaceful discourse and nonviolence. If that isn't the case I will continue to view them as a threat to my safety. Know what I mean?
Ah, well the few people who started the organisation don't me too very much to me. I doubt they mean much to most of the people protesting under the BLM banner either. And that's assuming most of them know it's an actual organisation, and not just a slogan for a social movement.

It's an interesting perspective though, to consider that all those people would sign up (or something) to be part of an official group. I don't think that's what's happened at all. From what I've seen of the protests, it seems more like a hashtag movement than dot-org.
 

Magnum

Well-known member
Ah, well the few people who started the organisation don't me too very much to me. I doubt they mean much to most of the people protesting under the BLM banner either. And that's assuming most of them know it's an actual organisation, and not just a slogan for a social movement.

It's an interesting perspective though, to consider that all those people would sign up (or something) to be part of an official group. I don't think that's what's happened at all. From what I've seen of the protests, it seems more like a hashtag movement than dot-org.
I understand and half way agree, BLM is an actual organization and they are currently being well funded. If someone decides to use their slogan they should understand that saying "black lives matter" is different all together than being a part of the multinational organization (that I view as a racist , Marxist terror group) that pushes an agenda more than the name suggests. Sure, plenty of people will say they support BLM but if they understood the implication they likely wouldn't . It's my feeling that they chose a name like BLM because if someone speaks badly of them it's the simplest thing to scream racist, that'll keep a number of people in support of them simply to not appear to be against black lives.

With as much power , money and influence as BLM has gotten lately , they should be held accountable for what's done in their name if they don't officially and publicly denounce such actions. Telling members and demonstrators that violence will not be tolerated at any of their planned events, anything less is unacceptable and renders them a terror group. This isn't a little cell of radicals on the coast fighting for fairness, this is mainstream wholesale Marxism on full display and few people will stand up to them for fear of being called racist. I'm comfortable with my treatment of my fellow humans, I know I'm a fair and honorable man and I don't care if someone wants to point a finger at me and make false accusations, but many aren't . all I can do is call it like I see it and race doesn't have a damn thing to do with it.
 

WrongHanded

Active member
I understand and half way agree, BLM is an actual organization and they are currently being well funded. If someone decides to use their slogan they should understand that saying "black lives matter" is different all together than being a part of the multinational organization (that I view as a racist , Marxist terror group) that pushes an agenda more than the name suggests. Sure, plenty of people will say they support BLM but if they understood the implication they likely wouldn't . It's my feeling that they chose a name like BLM because if someone speaks badly of them it's the simplest thing to scream racist, that'll keep a number of people in support of them simply to not appear to be against black lives.

With as much power , money and influence as BLM has gotten lately , they should be held accountable for what's done in their name if they don't officially and publicly denounce such actions. Telling members and demonstrators that violence will not be tolerated at any of their planned events, anything less is unacceptable and renders them a terror group. This isn't a little cell of radicals on the coast fighting for fairness, this is mainstream wholesale Marxism on full display and few people will stand up to them for fear of being called racist. I'm comfortable with my treatment of my fellow humans, I know I'm a fair and honorable man and I don't care if someone wants to point a finger at me and make false accusations, but many aren't . all I can do is call it like I see it and race doesn't have a damn thing to do with it.
To be clear on my view. I think the BLM organisation/company is likely full of shitbirds, who stole a slogan back in 2013, and now are using it for their own benefit to push their own agenda. I'm sure they're rich now because if it, but from what I recall, there are only a few founders. I doubt we'll ever hear them denounce anything that is popularizing their company name and bringing in more cash. But hey, so what?

Scumbags are everywhere. No point waiting for a few of them to make some statement about something. Especially if you don't care about those individuals in the first place.
 

Magnum

Well-known member
To be clear on my view. I think the BLM organisation/company is likely full of shitbirds, who stole a slogan back in 2013, and now are using it for their own benefit to push their own agenda. I'm sure they're rich now because if it, but from what I recall, there are only a few founders. I doubt we'll ever hear them denounce anything that is popularizing their company name and bringing in more cash. But hey, so what?

Scumbags are everywhere. No point waiting for a few of them to make some statement about something. Especially if you don't care about those individuals in the first place.
This is where our opinions split. You will see the BLM founders, they freely admit to being "well trained marxists" . a sketchy group focused on race that consistently produce violent assembly without even trying to do anything to stop it is dangerous. No different than al-Qaeda- they don't like our ways and will seek to harm people who aren't trying to fight with them or who simply won't get onboard .

I'd be curious if anyone can list another group that consistently has their gatherings turn violent but is still praised by the mainstream media all while getting millions in donations and not making any public statement to even attempt to keep their gatherings civil. I dont think any such group exists . It's the message they send to those who participate , nothing is off the table as far as violence and destruction - BLM won't condemn the actions. The question I would have to their leadership is : what would Dr . King have to say? Would they call him a racist for shunning their violence ? And why don't the peaceful folks split off, join or form a group dedicated to CIVIL discourse that isn't a terror group that seeks to do more harm to race relations .

Until I hear that BLM denounces violence as am official organization wide policy, I'll consider the entire organization and anyone who marches under their banner a terrorist and I'll treat them as such. No other group on our soil is praised by the mainstream while not condemning violence, destruction and chaos. This is how spoiled children behave and it can't be tolerated.
 

WrongHanded

Active member
This is where our opinions split. You will see the BLM founders, they freely admit to being "well trained marxists" . a sketchy group focused on race that consistently produce violent assembly without even trying to do anything to stop it is dangerous. No different than al-Qaeda- they don't like our ways and will seek to harm people who aren't trying to fight with them or who simply won't get onboard .

I'd be curious if anyone can list another group that consistently has their gatherings turn violent but is still praised by the mainstream media all while getting millions in donations and not making any public statement to even attempt to keep their gatherings civil. I dont think any such group exists . It's the message they send to those who participate , nothing is off the table as far as violence and destruction - BLM won't condemn the actions. The question I would have to their leadership is : what would Dr . King have to say? Would they call him a racist for shunning their violence ? And why don't the peaceful folks split off, join or form a group dedicated to CIVIL discourse that isn't a terror group that seeks to do more harm to race relations .

Until I hear that BLM denounces violence as am official organization wide policy, I'll consider the entire organization and anyone who marches under their banner a terrorist and I'll treat them as such. No other group on our soil is praised by the mainstream while not condemning violence, destruction and chaos. This is how spoiled children behave and it can't be tolerated.
Well, okay. If you'd prefer to see the world that way, you're free to do so. Marginalize to your heart's content.
 

WrongHanded

Active member
I don't follow what I'm marginalizing, can you clarify?
This right here...

Until I hear that BLM denounces violence as am official organization wide policy, I'll consider the entire organization and anyone who marches under their banner a terrorist and I'll treat them as such. No other group on our soil is praised by the mainstream while not condemning violence, destruction and chaos. This is how spoiled children behave and it can't be tolerated.
...Suggests you wish to vilify anyone who wears clothing, carried a sign, or chants, the words "Black Lives Matter". But most of those people don't know what the Organisation with the same name really is. Yet you want to lump them all together, despite the peacefully majority who are simply excercising their right to free speech and to protest, and advocating for change.

It's easy to dehumanize and demonize people for what you perceive they are. That, is a type of prejudice. You are literally pre-judging people based on a phrase they have in common with another entity. And that is marginalizing their legitimacy, as well as their intent.
 
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Magnum

Well-known member
This right here...



...Suggests you wish to vilify anyone who wears clothing, carried a sign, or chants, the words "Black Lives Matter". But most of those people don't know what the Organisation with the same name really is. Yet you want to lump them all together, despite the peacefully majority who are simply excercising their right to free speech and to protest, and advocating for change.

It's easy to dehumanize and demonize people for what you perceive they are. That, is a type of prejudice. You are literally pre-judging people based on a phrase they have in common with another entity. And that is marginalizing their legitimacy, as well as their intent.
Shouldn't that be the standard? How is this different than judging someone marching around in a Nazi uniform? It's not likely that they personally believe in rounding up Jews for slaughter but they fly the flag of the organization that does. Ignorance of their affiliation with a hate group doesn't remove their obligation to understand what that organization stands for. I don't see it any differently.

What about if a guy buys some sort of kkk t-shirt because he thinks it looks cool, no other reason. Does that remove his responsibility if he gets beaten up on the street for it?

I think if the media was honest about BLMs agenda their support would crumble and hopefully the cause they support on the surface would be taken up by a legitimate organization. Corporate sponsorship of BLM is insaine, I would like an honest answer where the $50 + million BLM took in will be spent, my guess is not on libraries, food and shelter for the most poverty stricken black neighborhoods.

I live near chicago, black on black crime is out of control . dozens shot every weekend- if they believe that black lives matter they should help patrol those neighborhoods to keep the streets safe. Instead they condone murder of police and property destruction. But now I'm sounding like a broken record.

If calling it like it is means that I'm marginalizing the members I would have to tell them to find a group that means what they say and fight for equality , not division and violence.
 

WrongHanded

Active member
Shouldn't that be the standard? How is this different than judging someone marching around in a Nazi uniform? It's not likely that they personally believe in rounding up Jews for slaughter but they fly the flag of the organization that does. Ignorance of their affiliation with a hate group doesn't remove their obligation to understand what that organization stands for. I don't see it any differently.
It's different because they don't all know it's a uniform. Some of them simply and literally think that Black lives do infact matter. They are not shouting "Black Marxism!"

What if the organisation had taken a different slogan, such as "Peace and Liberty for All" but still had the same values? Would you then be forbidden from saying that phrase, even if you truly believed the words and knew nothing of the organisation also using it?

This is really straight forward. You find it easier to demonize an entire group of people, rather than deal with having to separate them individually by character and intent. I've seen many people do the exact same thing over many different issues. Some of the Left want to demonize all Trump supporters. Some on the right use names like "libtard" to brand everyone with views left of center as stupid and ignorant. Neither realize that they are part of the problem, and the cause of the great political divide now set before us. It's lazy, ignorant, and extremely detrimental to America. Yet somehow they all seem to believe that if their side can just gain enough power for a short time and run out some extreme legislation, everything will magically be the way they want it. That's not reality. Compromise is reality.

So how about instead of finding reasons to hate all these people, you perhaps try empathizing with them a little bit. The majority of these protesters want the same things from life that everyone else does. They just don't see a path to it without some major changes. Which doesn't need to be Marxism, but does need to level the playing field in some way.
 

Magnum

Well-known member
What if the organisation had taken a different slogan, such as "Peace and Liberty for All" but still had the same values? Would you then be forbidden from saying that phrase, even if you truly believed the words and knew nothing of the organisation also using it?
That would be equally deceptive . like I said, their slogan/ group name is meant to discourage anyone from speaking bad of them. A ploy. protesters could just as easily say "unify society" , "equality now" , "respect minorities " or any other combination of words that mean the same thing but without the connotations. Don't blame me for ignorance when you admit that the people chanting BLM don't know what the group stands for. It's intended for deception ,I'll do my part to inform BLM supporters what they're advocating but unless the mainstream media admits it people will continue to be misinformed . Ignorance for what a phrase truly means doesn't erase the fact that someone says it and what it really means.

Just as others have said countless times, "all lives matter " would be appropriate and by default include black, brown and white lives. The simple fact that term is outright rejected is evidence of racism within their organization and I find it disgusting that they reject that phrase. The masses of protesters are misinformed , that doesn't mean there's anything at all wrong with me and sure as hell doesn't make me a racist or a moron either.
 

WrongHanded

Active member
That would be equally deceptive . like I said, their slogan/ group name is meant to discourage anyone from speaking bad of them. A ploy. protesters could just as easily say "unify society" , "equality now" , "respect minorities " or any other combination of words that mean the same thing but without the connotations. Don't blame me for ignorance when you admit that the people chanting BLM don't know what the group stands for. It's intended for deception ,I'll do my part to inform BLM supporters what they're advocating but unless the mainstream media admits it people will continue to be misinformed . Ignorance for what a phrase truly means doesn't erase the fact that someone says it and what it really means.

Just as others have said countless times, "all lives matter " would be appropriate and by default include black, brown and white lives. The simple fact that term is outright rejected is evidence of racism within their organization and I find it disgusting that they reject that phrase. The masses of protesters are misinformed , that doesn't mean there's anything at all wrong with me and sure as hell doesn't make me a racist or a moron either.
Well, we at least agree that the organisation is being intentionally deceptive. Can we really blame people for being deceived? It happens all the time.

I think the crux of the matter is whether most protesters are going to become Marxists as the result of chanting a slogan. I don't believe that's the case. The organisation can raise and channel funds all they want, but money alone cannot make these average folk follow that road. They have to want that fundamental change in a governing system, and I seriously doubt many of them do.

I really don't see what the problem is with people shouting "Black Lives Matter" in a peaceful protest. It's doesn't mean we're all going to be forced into communism.
 

Magnum

Well-known member
I really don't see what the problem is with people shouting "Black Lives Matter" in a peaceful protest. It's doesn't mean we're all going to be forced into communism
I agree but I worry their agenda will be normalised more and more . nothing at all wrong with the statement that black lives matter but if a certain number follow the movement blindly where the leaders want it to go it will only lead to racial division and further violence. Just the fact that such deception is being catered to as a mainstream and justice oriented movement is just bad. That's all I'm getting at. I have no problem saying that black lives are just as important as any other but I wouldn't utter their slogan and I wanted to shine light on it as deception .

I really appreciate this conversation, I think it's been enlightening and productive (hopefully for both of us). I think fundamentally we're on the same page with just a slight difference on the weight and gravity that some phrases have when they can mean more than one thing.
 

ZeeM

New member
A view from afar: I am from South Africa; we have had and still have a much more divided society than the US. First. Yes all lives matter, but institutional racism exists. As a non-white, I see it regularly everywhere. During my internship days (working at a multi-national), I was stripped of a project and shipped off to another province simply because a White did not want to go. That is racism. Having said that, are all whites racist? Of course not. Are all non-whites victims of racism? No. But things do need to change.
 

Ranb

New member
I post on some forums and websites that cater to viewpoints that differ from my own. Preaching to the choir does no good at all.
 
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