nasty pelosi

theotherwaldo

Well-known member
I believe that Hillary came up with the Deplorables slam.
Obama usually was more selective, slapping down the police, soldiers, non-college-educated whites, and anyone else that was unlikely to go along with his agenda.
 

Selena

Active member
I believe that Hillary came up with the Deplorables slam.
Obama usually was more selective, slapping down the police, soldiers, non-college-educated whites, and anyone else that was unlikely to go along with his agenda.
Bitter clingers then. I purposely avoided using the Clintons as an example as they would be far too easy to define "unpresidential" behavior.
 

theotherwaldo

Well-known member
"Bitter clingers."
Presidential, indeed.
How dare those ignorant commoners cling to religious faith and the Bill of Rights when we, the obviously wiser, have a far better plan for the world's future... .
 

bummer7

New member
No one had more names for opponents than Trump - it was like having a 3rd grader for president. This is where 'nasty Pelosi' comes from. Democrats behave like adults - Pelosi never called Trump 'orange man' or 'Cheeto'.

I think all of us forget politicians have been slinging mud at each other almost as long as we have been a country. To say Democrats behave like adults is not true as they behave just as badly as the GOP have over the years. Who can forget "Tricky Dick", "Ignoramus Abe", "Dubya", "Aunt Nancy" (James Buchannan), and now "Uncle Tim". I'm sure there have been plenty of name calling on both sides of the aisle for the past two hundred years. But to say one party is more adult than the other is foolish.
 

roscoe

Well-known member
I think all of us forget politicians have been slinging mud at each other almost as long as we have been a country. To say Democrats behave like adults is not true as they behave just as badly as the GOP have over the years. Who can forget "Tricky Dick", "Ignoramus Abe", "Dubya", "Aunt Nancy" (James Buchannan), and now "Uncle Tim". I'm sure there have been plenty of name calling on both sides of the aisle for the past two hundred years. But to say one party is more adult than the other is foolish.

In none of the cases that you listed, was the person who came up with the appellation a member of congress, let alone the President of the USA. Trump was so notable because he kept up the juvenile name-calling while in office. That is not adult behavior.

Pundits make up names all the time, but so what. I am talking about the head of the free world acting like an 8 year-old.
 

theotherwaldo

Well-known member
Pundits are basically finger puppets for public figures that wish to remain above all of this dirty stuff.
Trump didn't have a pack of tame pundits to sic on his opponents, so he did it himself - joyfully, from what I can see... .
 

roscoe

Well-known member
Pundits are basically finger puppets for public figures that wish to remain above all of this dirty stuff.

That is especially the case for Fox, which has largely served as a Trump mouthpiece.

But you are correct that he was joyfully immature. But he has been that way his entire life. I mean, he payed $130,000 to sleep with a porn star, while he was married. And then he watched Shark Week.
 

theotherwaldo

Well-known member
So there's one of Fox and 99 of everyone else.
I don't see your problem.
All of the major media sources have been bought up by major corporations and now spout only what major corporations want the people to see and hear.
They have no interest in truth, fairness or the country that they are supposed to be informing.
Most are owned by international conglomerates, many of which have strong connections to our competitors and even our sworn enemies.
Yellow journalism at best.
I can see why Trump enjoyed taunting them and pulling their collective tails... .
 
In none of the cases that you listed, was the person who came up with the appellation a member of congress, let alone the President of the USA. Trump was so notable because he kept up the juvenile name-calling while in office. That is not adult behavior.

Pundits make up names all the time, but so what. I am talking about the head of the free world acting like an 8 year-old.

Absolutely, that's not adult behavior.

Adult behavior is lying to our faces.

Adult behavior is running your government computer business off a private server in direct violation of statutes and regulations, then wiping the server and asking "Wiping, like a cloth?"

Adult behavior is looking at constituents and saying one thing while doing another.

Adult behavior is calling a constituent a fat liar.

Adult behavior is inciting people into rude and violent behavior against their political opponents.

Adult behavior is condoning rude and violent behavior in those who support your political aims while condemning the same in others.

Adult behavior is political opponents or political undesirables who mysteriously suicide.

Adult behavior is calling people "Deplorables".

I'll give Trump this: when he opened his mouth and said a lot of his stuff, at least you knew he was speaking his mind instead of empty political rhetoric.
 

roscoe

Well-known member
Absolutely, that's not adult behavior.

Adult behavior is lying to our faces.

Adult behavior is running your government computer business off a private server in direct violation of statutes and regulations, then wiping the server and asking "Wiping, like a cloth?"

Adult behavior is looking at constituents and saying one thing while doing another.

Adult behavior is calling a constituent a fat liar.

Adult behavior is inciting people into rude and violent behavior against their political opponents.

Adult behavior is condoning rude and violent behavior in those who support your political aims while condemning the same in others.

Adult behavior is political opponents or political undesirables who mysteriously suicide.

Adult behavior is calling people "Deplorables".

I'll give Trump this: when he opened his mouth and said a lot of his stuff, at least you knew he was speaking his mind instead of empty political rhetoric.

Wait - politicians lie? Whoda think it?

But if you are suggesting Trump didn't do all those things (except kill Marc Rich, because that is a loony conspiracy theory), then that it absurd. We have Trump, on video, encouraging his followers to beat up protestors. He was the biggest (documented) liar since Nixon. And he called people lots worse than 'deplorables'.

Oh, he spoke his mind, all right, unfiltered by even common sense. And it cost him the election.

If you want a thorough enumeration of his sins and failings, I can provide it, but aside from his complete failure in terms of policy accomplishments while in office, he was irretrievably flawed as a man. Here is a sample:
- Paying $130,000 because you cheated on your wife with a porn star,
- groping women without consent,
- Taking more time off to play golf than any president in history,
- Giving yourself a big tax cut while in office,
- Corrupt use of the State Dept.,
- Failure to divest himself of control of his business while in office,
- His inability to take a single moral stand, even when faced with white supremacists,
- The destructive effect of his vanity on making decisions (especially with regards to COVID).

These are not a question of liberal vs. conservative. These are deep character flaws, and having someone like this in office was destructive to the country , in terms of our internal dialogues, our international standing, and the morale of the country.

Plenty of Republicans saw this, and there is a reason there was a big group of Republican 'Never-Trumpers'. Notice that there was never a big group of Democratic 'Never-Obamas'. Even if folks disagreed with Obama's policies (and he undoubtedly made mistakes, even by his own admission), there was never a question as to his character and demeanor.
 
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Wait - politicians lie? Whoda think it?

But if you are suggesting Trump didn't do all those things (except kill Marc Rich, because that is a loony conspiracy theory), then that it absurd. We have Trump, on video, encouraging his followers to beat up protestors. He was the biggest (documented) liar since Nixon. And he called people lots worse than 'deplorables'.

Oh, he spoke his mind, all right, unfiltered by even common sense. And it cost him the election.

If you want a thorough enumeration of his sins and failings, I can provide it, but aside from his complete failure in terms of policy accomplishments while in office, he was irretrievably flawed as a man. Here is a sample:
- Paying $130,000 because you cheated on your wife with a porn star,
- groping women without consent,
- Taking more time off to play golf than any president in history,
- Giving yourself a big tax cut while in office,
- Corrupt use of the State Dept.,
- Failure to divest himself of control of his business while in office,
- His inability to take a single moral stand, even when faced with white supremacists,
- The destructive effect of his vanity on making decisions (especially with regards to COVID).

These are not a question of liberal vs. conservative. These are deep character flaws, and having someone like this in office was destructive to the country , in terms of our internal dialogues, our international standing, and the morale of the country.

Plenty of Republicans saw this, and there is a reason there was a big group of Republican 'Never-Trumpers'. Notice that there was never a big group of Democratic 'Never-Obamas'. Even if folks disagreed with Obama's policies (and he undoubtedly made mistakes, even by his own admission), there was never a question as to his character and demeanor.

Soooo...everything you pointed out/listed is something we can all point out as things OTHER politicians have done?

You're not gaining any support, here.
 

roscoe

Well-known member
Soooo...everything you pointed out/listed is something we can all point out as things OTHER politicians have done?

You're not gaining any support, here.

We all know politicians lie. And it is one thing to have a mistress - LOTS of politicians have done that. But Trump was so accustomed to a certain type of immature, dishonest, and selfish behavior that he was unable to change when he became president.

No modern president has ever, to my knowledge, encouraged his supporters to beat up protestors, or been videotaped saying the kinds of loathesome things about women that he has, or so actively encouraged division among Americans, or derided American veterans (e.g. John Mccain, Alexander Vindman, William McRaven, Stanley McChrystal, Seth Moulton) just because they didn't agree with his politics, or gone on the kind of Twitter rants that he has (a list: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/01/19/upshot/trump-complete-insult-list.html.)

He is just a fatally flawed individual, from a character standpoint. Sometimes, as in Bill Clinton, say, a flawed president is smart enough and productive enough that they seem to be successful, anyway (although I am no Clinton fan). But I do think that Bush II and Obama are examples of fairly morally upright individuals, on a personal level. Whatever their failings (and I regard Iraq as a catastrophe), there is no evidence of personal corruption, infidelity, or using the US government for personal gain/vendetta. Their communications with the world were well-thought out, dignified, and related to US governmental business, NOT personal views, anger, disparagements of political or personal opponents.

From your handle, I infer that you are retired from the military. My family is full of military, active and retired, and they report that, among veterans and those in active-duty, Trump is the least popular Republican presidential candidate in decades, precisely because of his lack of honor and character. His 2020 numbers among the military reflect this:

I am sure that some Republicans support Trump for policy reasons - the wealthy want tax cuts, gun rights folks or anti-abortion folks want SCOTUS appointees, or, fundamentalists Christians oppose gay/transgender protections, or libertarians are opposed to universal health care, or mining companies want access to federally protected lands. So, they hold their nose and vote for him, much as many Democrats did in 1996 when voting for Clinton.

But to defend him, as if he were the anointed one - I really don't get that. He is a venal, selfish, and amoral person who lacks the intelligence and self-control to mask his flaws. And, ultimately, these character flaws were his downfall.
 
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Ain't sayin' he's perfect.

But I can certainly list examples of politicians who fit your description of politicians you can't seem to find examples of.

It's not all that difficult.

The difference with Trump was he put things out where people could see/hear them.
 

roscoe

Well-known member
Ain't sayin' he's perfect.

But I can certainly list examples of politicians who fit your description of politicians you can't seem to find examples of.

It's not all that difficult.

The difference with Trump was he put things out where people could see/hear them.

If he was putting them out there because of wisdom or honesty, I would find it acceptable, even if I disagreed with his policy positions. I disliked Cheney, but he was a straight shooter who told you what he thought. I recommend watching the 2000 vice presidential debate - everything he said was well-reasoned (although mostly the opposite of my views). And even if he was, in my estimation, driven by the wrong values, he was smart and had put a lot of thought into his positions. You couldn't help but respect that about him.

That is not the case with Trump. All he knows is what is directly in front of him, and he is driven entirely by his appetites - for women, power, revenge, wealth, adulation. He has a short attention span - the accounts of his intelligence briefings are pretty terrifying. He never knew enough about anything do do it thoroughly, or well, and as a result his administration was in constant turmoil. Like I said, he had the highest turnover in his cabinet and upper administration of any president since Nixon (and Nixon only at the end). He is very reactive and thin-skinned, which is why he always had to try to get the last word in. Everything is personal to him. I recommend reading through his tweets (linked in my previous post). You really want your president communicating to the World like that?

And I also found his inability to take moral stands (e.g. Charlottesville, the Proud Boys, etc.) pretty appalling. He was basically willing to do anything to get votes, including giving tacit cover to some pretty unacceptable folks. I guess some people won't care about this, but I do. Maybe it works for him because it is all part of 'pwning the libs', but it was definitely divisive in ways we hadn't seen from national politicians for decades.

You might consider, to yourself, whether you think Trump intentionally appeals to people's worst instincts. He very much tries to get people to think of certain folks as enemies or 'the other' (Democrats, immigrants, etc.). I would be interested to see if you could find a national politician in the last 30 years who encouraged his supporters to be violent towards protestors. The 1968 Chicago Democratic Convention is the last time that I can think of.

Trump just doesn't have a presidential temperament. We don't want someone in the White House who is so easily provoked. We do want someone who prioritizes the country over his own ego. We do want someone who takes the time (and has the intellect) to understand his government. What we need is someone who is 'steady in the pocket', as my football coach used to say.
 
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If he was putting them out there because of wisdom or honesty, I would find it acceptable, even if I disagreed with his policy positions. I disliked Cheney, but he was a straight shooter who told you what he thought. I recommend watching the 2000 vice presidential debate - everything he said was well-reasoned (although mostly the opposite of my views). And even if he was, in my estimation, driven by the wrong values, he was smart and had put a lot of thought into his positions. You couldn't help but respect that about him.

That is not the case with Trump. All he knows is what is directly in front of him, and he is driven entirely by his appetites - for women, power, revenge, wealth, adulation. He has a short attention span - the accounts of his intelligence briefings are pretty terrifying. He never knew enough about anything do do it thoroughly, or well, and as a result his administration was in constant turmoil. Like I said, he had the highest turnover in his cabinet and upper administration of any president since Nixon (and Nixon only at the end). He is very reactive and thin-skinned, which is why he always had to try to get the last word in. Everything is personal to him. I recommend reading through his tweets (linked in my previous post). You really want your president communicating to the World like that?

And I also found his inability to take moral stands (e.g. Charlottesville, the Proud Boys, etc.) pretty appalling. He was basically willing to do anything to get votes, including giving tacit cover to some pretty unacceptable folks. I guess some people won't care about this, but I do. Maybe it works for him because it is all part of 'pwning the libs', but it was definitely divisive in ways we hadn't seen from national politicians for decades.

You might consider, to yourself, whether you think Trump intentionally appeals to people's worst instincts. He very much tries to get people to think of certain folks as enemies or 'the other' (Democrats, immigrants, etc.). I would be interested to see if you could find a national politician in the last 30 years who encouraged his supporters to be violent towards protestors. The 1968 Chicago Democratic Convention is the last time that I can think of.

Trump just doesn't have a presidential temperament. We don't want someone in the White House who is so easily provoked. We do want someone who prioritizes the country over his own ego. We do want someone who takes the time (and has the intellect) to understand his government. What we need is someone who is 'steady in the pocket', as my football coach used to say.

News flash:

ALL politicians are driven by their appetites.

Every. Single. One.

As for "presidential temperament"...the seems to have been no shortage of that going around the last several Presidents.

If, of course, by "presidential temperament" you mean two-faced, lying, cheating, back-stabbing, conniving, pandering, and devisive.

Just to list a few.
 

roscoe

Well-known member
News flash:

ALL politicians are driven by their appetites.

Every. Single. One.

As for "presidential temperament"...the seems to have been no shortage of that going around the last several Presidents.

If, of course, by "presidential temperament" you mean two-faced, lying, cheating, back-stabbing, conniving, pandering, and devisive.

Just to list a few.

Sure, politicians are egotistical. But it is too simple to say that all politicians are bad, therefore you can't criticize any particular one. That lets everybody of the hook, including the voters.

I am sure you can see that presidents fall along a range of different character traits from relatively honest to corrupt, smart to stupid, patient to impulsive, selfish to selfless, personally faithful to infidelitous. Politicians (and all people) fall along these axes. Some are smart and honest (Eisenhower, Carter, Obama), smart and dishonest (Nixon, Clinton), not too smart but fairly honest (Bush II). Trump just happened to fall on the wrong end of all of these character axes.

To say that politicians are all equally immoral means that we, as voters, don't have to do the hard work of figuring out who is a better person (not whether one of them is truly 'good').

For me, personal character matters.
 
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