It begs the question

[readyeddy]

Whatever it was, it was a big mistake. Most Americans , which includes the middle America that elects every American President, saw the Capitol break in to be unpatriotic, a total backfire if there ever was one. It was the biggest gift the radical left could ever hope for in their lifetime.

The far right, Trump and his supporters, and organizations that appear to lean right of center, like those who support the 2A, were harmed in ways that will likely unfold in the months to come. How, take your pick.

The Democrats have the White House, the House of Representatives and the Senate. The timing of all this couldn't be worse. I was tempted to use derogatory names in describing the rioters, but that would just be venting frustration. We need more adults in the room.

 

[roscoe]

Whatever it was, it was a big mistake. Most Americans , which includes the middle America that elects every American President, saw the Capitol break in to be unpatriotic, a total backfire if there ever was one. It was the biggest gift the radical left could ever hope for in their lifetime.

The far right, Trump and his supporters, and organizations that appear to lean right of center, like those who support the 2A, were harmed in ways that will likely unfold in the months to come. How, take your pick.

The Democrats have the White House, the House of Representatives and the Senate. The timing of all this couldn't be worse. I was tempted to use derogatory names in describing the rioters, but that would just be venting frustration. We need more adults in the room.

There will be a huge long-term cost for the right because of their support of Trump. They appeased the loudest of their supporters, but no one is really questioning the fact that Trump, an incumbent, lost by 8 million votes overall. That is a lot of people to vote against an incumbent.

Trump is also largely responsible for the loss of the House (2018) and Senate (2020) because he is so good at alienating people (especially women), many of whom made it a point to vote. My interpretation is that Trump, along with the QAnon crowd and the Proud Boys, will scramble the Republicans for 6 months, and that over the longer haul, they will have to significantly retool. How they will appease the angry right-wingers who liked Trump while appealing to larger numbers of Americans will be an interesting dance to watch.

But I don't worry too much about gun rights. There a enough pro-gun Democrats from the western states, plus a hair-thin majority, and the SCOTUS balance means we are probably good. If we can just get ammo . . .

 

[Ranb]

Is storming the US capital and routing the elected officials considered activism or revolution?

It depends upon the outcome. If the rioters take over, kick out Congress then create a new government that is embraced by the American people, then it is a revolution. Didn't happen.

It is activism if they show up and demonstrate no-violently. Didn't happen either.

If they storm the capital, shit on the floor, steal crap and assault people, then it is illegal rioting and maybe attempted subversion. This did happen.

Part of the crazy is that Trump embraced the rioters, said he loved them and told them to go home after he saw how bartsh*t crazy they were.

Now the denial is starting. Some fruitcakes are claiming without evidence that it was really antifa that lead the charge. Does anyone think antifa is cunning enough to establish pro-GOP and alt-right online profiles for years just to get ready to storm the castle in a false flag operation? I don't think they are.

 

[The Last Outlaw]

Definitely not antifa, but I believe it was set up to happen exactly as it did. The FBI warned this was coming, and the Capitol police chief practically begged for more help a couple days before the "insurrection". The Pentagon refused to send more help because of the "optics" of having soldiers on Capitol Hill. They let this happen intentionally, that is the true crime here.

 

[Howland937]

The concept of a "Silent Majority" is a big part of the problem here. Because there's clearly a group of people unwilling to consider even the possibility that the actual majority of voters don't want Trump as President.

One can only hope that the "silent majority" is the people who aren't too far in one direction or the other. When people speak of coming together, its my understanding that it would require being within reach. Certain elements on both sides are beyond reach, and unfortunately also seem to have the loudest voices.

 

[WrongHanded]

One can only hope that the "silent majority" is the people who aren't too far in one direction or the other. When people speak of coming together, its my understanding that it would require being within reach. Certain elements on both sides are beyond reach, and unfortunately also seem to have the loudest voices.

I think the silent majority truly are the middle of the road folks, who want government to work for the people, want to make society better for as many people as possible, and also want to retain individual rights and freedoms. They're silent because they know shouting doesn't help. They speak with their votes.

 

[CrustyCoot]

It depends upon the outcome. If the rioters take over, kick out Congress then create a new government that is embraced by the American people, then it is a revolution. Didn't happen.

It is activism if they show up and demonstrate no-violently. Didn't happen either.

If they storm the capital, shit on the floor, steal crap and assault people, then it is illegal rioting and maybe attempted subversion. This did happen.

Part of the crazy is that Trump embraced the rioters, said he loved them and told them to go home after he saw how bartsh*t crazy they were.

Now the denial is starting. Some fruitcakes are claiming without evidence that it was really antifa that lead the charge. Does anyone think antifa is cunning enough to establish pro-GOP and alt-right online profiles for years just to get ready to storm the castle in a false flag operation? I don't think they are.

Told them to go home in PEACE. Told them to march to the Capitol PEACEFULLY. Please don't be disingenuous and misquote to support your viewpoint.

 

[Ranb]

Told them to go home in PEACE. Told them to march to the Capitol PEACEFULLY. Please don't be disingenuous and misquote to support your viewpoint.

What part did I misquote? Trump actually told the rioters he loved them and told them to go home. What did I get wrong?

 

[CrustyCoot]

In Peace. You didn't complete his statement.

 

[theotherwaldo]

"It's not the people that vote that count, it's the people that count the votes."
-Joseph Stalin

 

[Ranb]

In Peace. You didn't complete his statement.

What good does it do to say "in peace" after they trashed the place? The point I was making was that Trump claims to love the rioters who invaded the capitol.

 

[CrustyCoot]

He told them before leaving the rally to be peaceful. Have you followed news? Antifsa fucker is being charged and arrested for planning and participating in the breach of the capitol. Planned a week in advance, nothing to do with Trump. And a video was released yesterday showing a CNN reporter there with him in the building. She was in on it too.

 

[Ranb]

He told them before leaving the rally to be peaceful. Have you followed news? Antifsa fucker is being charged and arrested for planning and participating in the breach of the capitol. Planned a week in advance, nothing to do with Trump. And a video was released yesterday showing a CNN reporter there with him in the building. She was in on it too.

Yes I follow the news. Did you watch Trump's video in which he also said he loved the rioters? He did not say "some rioters", he must have meant them all. Your cherry picking of portions of Trump's video is not getting you anywhere.

So we got a few antifa at the riot. Were they able to lead the pro-trump people by the nose into the building? Probably not as there were more than a few MAGA folks there.

If you're referring to John Sullivan, I've read articles that say he is antifa, or just an anarchist working both sides.

 

[CrustyCoot]

Whatever Sullivan is he is guilty and a trial will bear this out. He must be a real nut job, his own brother is the one who turned him in. Have you not watched some of the videos coming out in recent days? This was staged. Most of the bad actors are Antifa,BLM, or right wing extremists, not MAGA.

 

[WrongHanded]

This was staged. Most of the bad actors are Antifa,BLM, or right wing extremists, not MAGA.

Not all (or even most) MAGA are right wing extremists. But as far as I can tell, all right wing extremists are MAGA.

As far as most of them being Antifa or BLM goes, do you have any actual proof? Or do you just believe it?

 

[theotherwaldo]

Not all (or even most) MAGA are right wing extremists. But as far as I can tell, all right wing extremists are MAGA.

As far as most of them being Antifa or BLM goes, do you have any actual proof? Or do you just believe it?

Where in the world did you get that nonsense?
Much of the far right (and far left, for that matter) despise Trump and his family for their "Jewish pollution" and links to Israel. The far right also ridicules him for not really being a Republican (and he's not - he's more like a 1980s business Democrat) and the Republican political elite hate him for being an outsider.
Most of these points are why I could tolerate him at all... .
Anyway, you don't seem very interested in proof.
You've already made up your mind.

 

[WrongHanded]

Where in the world did you get that nonsense?
Much of the far right (and far left, for that matter) despise Trump and his family for their "Jewish pollution" and links to Israel. The far right also ridicules him for not really being a Republican (and he's not - he's more like a 1980s business Democrat) and the Republican political elite hate him for being an outsider.
Most of these points are why I could tolerate him at all... .
Anyway, you don't seem very interested in proof.
You've already made up your mind.

I suppose what makes a right wing extremist very much depends on perspective. If we say that BLM and Antifa are the extreme left, what rises in opposition to them could easily be consider the extreme right. And who do we see opposing them on the street in counter protests? People waving Trump flags and wearing MAGA hats.

The followers of Richard Spencer's white supremacists seem pretty extremely right to me. They are pro Trump and therefore MAGA. The Proud Boys seem pretty extremely right to me, and they also support Trump and are therefore MAGA.

So if those groups are not the "far right" or "right wing extremists", who exactly is? Please do tell me, what demographic fits those descriptions? If the argument is that right wing extremists, but not MAGA, were responsible for storming the Capitol, who did those people vote for if not Trump?

You want to make out that MAGA has no part to play in right wing extremism, like Muslims want to make out that extremist islamic terrorists aren't Muslims. And that's just not a credible stance.

I ask for proof because crusty drops opinions all over the place that lack substance or evidence, and does so as if he's dropping the truth. If he wants people to believe what is widely considered false, to be truth, he needs to supply evidence. He never does. I've tried very hard to attack the position and not the person, but you challenged me in stating I don't want proof, so here's your explanation as to why I ask for it. Is my mind made up? Until evidences makes me question my stance, on this subject it absolutely is. Prove me wrong. Or don't. I won't simply believe what appears to be BS because some dude online says so.

 

[Howland937]

I can't quote the source, but the best explanation I've ever seen given was (paraphrasing)
" People think of liberal and conservative politics as a horizontal line with a left, middle and right...with extreme left being socialist or communist and extreme right being fascist. Doesn't matter which extreme it is, if it goes too far in either direction, it eventually becomes totalitarian. Totalitarian regimes at that point have more in common, economics notwithstanding. Political imprisonment, genocide, military rule, etc...

So, instead of a horizontal line with a middle, extreme left and extreme right, think of it as a circle. The "middle" is zero degrees. Anything past about 30 degrees either direction is then just a race to the bottom."

 

[theotherwaldo]

I believe that it was Himmler that said that the difference between fascism and communism is a matter of labeling. The systems are functionally identical... .

 

[roscoe]

I believe that it was Himmler that said that the difference between fascism and communism is a matter of labeling. The systems are functionally identical... .

Himmler was wrong about a lot of things, it turns out.