First act of treason before being in office

I am not a supporter of illegal immigration, but here is some food for thought.

This country was built by immigration. No way to see it any other way. Around every hundred years, we have had massive increases in immigration, and every hundred years people get all worked up and raise hell. Yet, somehow, we are still here. We are still standing. Maybe the same thing can happen during this cycle.
 

Howland937

Active member
I am not a supporter of illegal immigration, but here is some food for thought
There are people in this country who give more regard to stray dogs and cats than underprivileged children. No, I don't have to like illegal immigration and nobody else has to either. But some of these blowhards need to ask themselves a simple question:
What lengths would you go to in order to keep your family safe?
Anyone who answers that they'd only do whatever was within the limits of the law is either lying or the biggest p.o.s. parent around here.
 

roscoe

Active member
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/invasion?s=
#4 is particularly appropriate.

Hide behind semantics if you like. Definitions are only as good as the idiots writing them and this isnt a court of law anyway- not that the courts are any less corrupt than the rest of the system.

Interesting that you should single out Mexican immigrants, since so many of the Central American hordes currently streaming across the border will be competing for work with the Mexicans already here, legal or otherwise.

If only they were just here to pick grapes. They are here to obtain medical care and education for their children at the expense of US taxpayers and THEIR children. They are here to form colonies and reproduce. They are not stupid. They know their progeny will form coveted voting blocs and be courted and coddled by political parties, each vying to throw more "free" stuff at them.

I understand just fine, and I really dont care about your definition of invasion. I know the face of my enemies.
Semantics? I am talking about law. Ignore it and you are irrelevant at best.

Anyway, your precise arguments were made against every single immigrant group of the 19th and 20 the century. Irish, Italians, Chinese, etc. They were just as invalid and prejudicial then.
 

theotherwaldo

Well-known member
Sorry, none of this is legally true. Invasion is very different from crossing a border illegally. There are definitions of both. But, just so you understand - invasion requires an army, or an armed, organized force. Poor Mexicans coming across to pick grapes simply does not qualify.
Yeah, come down here on the border and say that to the Mexicans in the colonias that are struggling to get their citizenship the expensive, legal way while watching these Guatemalans and Hondurans trying to jump to the front of the line... .
They'll tell you about 'invaders'.
 

Selena

Member
Semantics? I am talking about law. Ignore it and you are irrelevant at best.

Anyway, your precise arguments were made against every single immigrant group of the 19th and 20 the century. Irish, Italians, Chinese, etc. They were just as invalid and prejudicial then.
And I suppose Pancho Villa was fighting other Mexicans when he crossed the border and attacked Columbus, New Mexico.
 

roscoe

Active member
There are people in this country who give more regard to stray dogs and cats than underprivileged children. No, I don't have to like illegal immigration and nobody else has to either. But some of these blowhards need to ask themselves a simple question:
What lengths would you go to in order to keep your family safe?
Anyone who answers that they'd only do whatever was within the limits of the law is either lying or the biggest p.o.s. parent around here.

Nailed it!
 

theotherwaldo

Well-known member
There are people in this country who give more regard to stray dogs and cats than underprivileged children. No, I don't have to like illegal immigration and nobody else has to either. But some of these blowhards need to ask themselves a simple question:
What lengths would you go to in order to keep your family safe?
Anyone who answers that they'd only do whatever was within the limits of the law is either lying or the biggest p.o.s. parent around here.
You want P.O.S. parents?
Those are the ones that sell their kids to the coyotes and cartels so that they can be rented out to those that want to cross "accompanied by a child".
According to the local Border Patrol agents, some of these kids have "accompanied" four or five sets of parents... before they get used as drug mules.
The next step down (unless they're caught) is usually as a sex slave.

Yeah, some of them eventually survive to become Dreamers... .
 

roscoe

Active member
You want P.O.S. parents?
Those are the ones that sell their kids to the coyotes and cartels so that they can be rented out to those that want to cross "accompanied by a child".
According to the local Border Patrol agents, some of these kids have "accompanied" four or five sets of parents... before they get used as drug mules.
The next step down (unless they're caught) is usually as a sex slave.

Yeah, some of them eventually survive to become Dreamers... .

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Source:

 

Howland937

Active member
You want P.O.S. parents?
Those are the ones that sell their kids to the coyotes and cartels so that they can be rented out to those that want to cross "accompanied by a child".
According to the local Border Patrol agents, some of these kids have "accompanied" four or five sets of parents... before they get used as drug mules.
The next step down (unless they're caught) is usually as a sex slave.

Yeah, some of them eventually survive to become Dreamers... .
Well, I didn't say it was a good solution or even a decision reached by sound logic. My point was that desperation can lead people to do unimaginable things. I realize you've got a front row seat, and I'm up in the nose bleed section...so maybe it is naive on my part. All those things you've described, and somehow these people STILL think it's better than the life they left. Or at least they feel like they have a chance, which is more than they ever had where they came from.
 

str8_forward

Active member
What do those stats have to do with my statement?
Anyway, illegals are rarely tried for their crimes and are usually released or deported instead.
No conviction, no crime.
to prove your point:

 

Selena

Member
Say what? You have literally made my point. Pancho invaded as a the head of a military unit.
That's funny, Pershing was ordered to capture bandits not engage military targets. Otherwise the great wobbly would have been forced to either declare war on Mexico or offer military assistance to the government in power.
 

roscoe

Active member
That's funny, Pershing was ordered to capture bandits not engage military targets. Otherwise the great wobbly would have been forced to either declare war on Mexico or offer military assistance to the government in power.

That is the point. Mexico was in the middle of a revolution. Pancho Villa had a rebel army, who was fighting against the army of the Mexican Federal Government. So, yes, Pershing was after the rebel army, not the Federal Army, because Pancho invaded, not Porfirio Diaz's army.

But make no mistake - Pancho's force was a military force (much as the Continental Army was a rebel military force). We did not send Pershing's 'Punitive Expedition' out after a bunch of illegal migrant farm workers.
 

Selena

Member
That is the point. Mexico was in the middle of a revolution. Pancho Villa had a rebel army, who was fighting against the army of the Mexican Federal Government. So, yes, Pershing was after the rebel army, not the Federal Army, because Pancho invaded, not Porfirio Diaz's army.

But make no mistake - Pancho's force was a military force (much as the Continental Army was a rebel military force). We did not send Pershing's 'Punitive Expedition' out after a bunch of illegal migrant farm workers.
It's plain your "knowledge" of history is on the same level as your skills in statistics.
 

theotherwaldo

Well-known member
The Villistas were far more a popular movement than they were an organized military force.
A large percentage of my neighbor's ancestors arrived here in south Texas just one step ahead of the Federales when Pancho's rebellion collapsed.
Many of these folks keep little shrines to Pancho and his thugs... .
 

roscoe

Active member
The Villistas were far more a popular movement than they were an organized military force.
A large percentage of my neighbor's ancestors arrived here in south Texas just one step ahead of the Federales when Pancho's rebellion collapsed.
Many of these folks keep little shrines to Pancho and his thugs... .

Not the point. The point is that they were a military force, and they invaded, and were therefore an enemy of the US. The American Revolution was also a popular uprising, but we wouldn't call the Continental Army anything but an army. Pancho's army (plus a few other rebel armies) did win, so they were at least a reasonably effective army.

Poor immigrants coming in to pick lettuce are not in any way 'enemies' of the US.
 

theotherwaldo

Well-known member
Also not the point.
It is just as illegal for these folks to be hired to pick lettuce as it is to encourage them to cross the border in this way.
If your intent is to eliminate every trace of respect for the laws of this nation, you're batting one thousand.
-Likewise, if you're trying to re-introduce slavery... .

If you don't like a law, get it changed.
Don't just ignore it... unless you want all laws ignored.
 

roscoe

Active member
Also not the point.
It is just as illegal for these folks to be hired to pick lettuce as it is to encourage them to cross the border in this way.
If your intent is to eliminate every trace of respect for the laws of this nation, you're batting one thousand.
-Likewise, if you're trying to re-introduce slavery... .

If you don't like a law, get it changed.
Don't just ignore it... unless you want all laws ignored.

Go back and read the thread. It is about who and who is not an enemy of the United States. And it is not poor migrant workers.

My goal is to make people think a bit harder. I am definitely not batting 1.000.
 
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