Biden's Border Policy Is More Than Just a Crisis

wiscoaster

Well-known member
Obviously, Biden didn't make this problem - he inherited it. But he is trying to address it in a way that is effective, but also humane.
There is much in roscoe's post that makes sense and I can agree with, but his concluding statement is absolute horse puckey. Biden's policies are intentionally making the problems worse and not addressing it in ways that are in any way shape or form humane. It's addressing it (or rather ignoring it) in ways that encourage crime and inhumanity on both sides of a non-existent border and moves us further and further from any sort of equitable and just solutions:

1) address the demands for illicit drugs - he's not doing that
2) address the demands for cheap labor - he's not doing that
3) make legal immigration for deserving and law-abiding immigrants faster and easier - he's not doing that
4) stop supporting tyrannical and elitist governments - he's not doing that
5) convict and incarcerate criminals - he's not doing that
6) support law enforcement agencies that only wish to enforce the law - he's not doing that

Biden's policy failures are a long list of not doing what must be done. There are no miracle solutions. But any solution requires doing. Not doing is not going to result in any kind of solution. Only a problem that continues getting worse. Whether it's inherited or whatever is irrelevant. It exists. So what works. What the Trump administration did during his years was at least working in some limited ways. Incomplete yes, but at least with some progress being made toward some solutions to some problems listed above.
 

roscoe

Well-known member
There is much in roscoe's post that makes sense and I can agree with, but his concluding statement is absolute horse puckey. Biden's policies are intentionally making the problems worse and not addressing it in ways that are in any way shape or form humane. It's addressing it (or rather ignoring it) in ways that encourage crime and inhumanity on both sides of a non-existent border and moves us further and further from any sort of equitable and just solutions:

1) address the demands for illicit drugs - he's not doing that
2) address the demands for cheap labor - he's not doing that
3) make legal immigration for deserving and law-abiding immigrants faster and easier - he's not doing that
4) stop supporting tyrannical and elitist governments - he's not doing that
5) convict and incarcerate criminals - he's not doing that
6) support law enforcement agencies that only wish to enforce the law - he's not doing that

Biden's policy failures are a long list of not doing what must be done. There are no miracle solutions. But any solution requires doing. Not doing is not going to result in any kind of solution. Only a problem that continues getting worse. Whether it's inherited or whatever is irrelevant. It exists. So what works. What the Trump administration did during his years was at least working in some limited ways. Incomplete yes, but at least with some progress being made toward some solutions to some problems listed above.

I agree with 1-4. The problem is that those things require a large-scale and long-term Congressional shift. He's only been in a few months. One major change that would make a difference would be legalization of drugs, which would literally put all the narco-traffickers out of business in weeks. But you can be sure that Congress isn't going there. There is literally no other solution - every possible law-enforcement solution has been tried.

The cheap labor issue requires new federal laws allowing vigorous prosecuting of employers of cheap labor. But those corporations, some of whom are quite large, have friends in Congress. If Congress allowed more short-term labor contracts, most of those people could just commute. But that would be resisted in Congress by various interests, notably organized labor. BTW - this has all been well-understood since the 1990s. Bush II tried to get some of this through, but similarly failed because of Congressional resistance.

Number 4 - I would be interested in your solution here. We have had a pretty poor record intervening in foreign countries.

I think his rates of arrest at the border refute your number 5.

So there we are - a big problem that requires the country to put aside differences and think long-term. But the short-term political forces are simply too great. But to make clear - my assessment is that Trump's policies were immoral, at least for me. Plus, the loss in American prestige was too significant, which I obviously do not want.
 
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theotherwaldo

Well-known member
By your reasoning, we should accept over 90% of the population of the world without questioning their motives or expecting any positive contribution from this flood of humanity until they turn this country into a duplicate of the countries that they abandoned.
It is not our duty to accept all of the people that can't hack it in their home countries.
 
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wiscoaster

Well-known member
Number 4 - I would be interested in your solution here. We have had a pretty poor record intervening in foreign countries.
My solution is to just leave them alone and treat them like any other sovereign nation that determines its own fate without any direction, interference, or support or assistance from the U.S.
 

roscoe

Well-known member
By your reasoning, we should accept over 90% of the population of the world without questioning their motives or expecting any positive contribution from this flood of humanity until they turn this country into a duplicate of the dountries that they abandoned.
It is not our duty to accept all of the people that can't hack it in their home countries.

Not at all. I am in favor of restricting immigration quite strictly, for environmental reasons - our footprint is big enough on the land. But that doesn't mean we get to put people in cages and separate children from families. These are the poorest people and most desperate people and we don't need to compound their misery.
 

roscoe

Well-known member
Under Trump they respected us. We got more cooperation than any previous President.

Who is 'they'? By almost any measure, US prestige dropped across the World under Trump:






 
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roscoe

Well-known member
My solution is to just leave them alone and treat them like any other sovereign nation that determines its own fate without any direction, interference, or support or assistance from the U.S.

Right, except it hasn't worked because we didn't leave them alone from about 1890-1980. NOW we tell them, sorry, hands off. We kicked over the can and now you get to pick up the pieces.
 

theotherwaldo

Well-known member
I had a patron drop in to the library this morning and ask about the big tour buses that are going through our town 24 hours a day.
I told him that I didn't know, so he left.
He came back a few minutes ago to tell me that he'd asked a Border Patrol agent that he'd met at a gas station.
The agent said that the buses are being used to send illegal aliens farther north, mostly to areas that are currently voting "red"... .
 

wiscoaster

Well-known member
Well, do you have some sort of evidence this is the case uniquely under Biden?
He came back a few minutes ago to tell me that he'd asked a Border Patrol agent that he'd met at a gas station.
The agent said that the buses are being used to send illegal aliens farther north, mostly to areas that are currently voting "red"... .
Evidence enough that it's "the case uniquely under Biden?"
 

theotherwaldo

Well-known member
Little LaJoya, Texas is being the big crossing spot right now.
It's toward the other end of the county, has a low budget and doesn't have a bridge across the Rio.
A perfect place to smuggle, both ways.

Last week, an illegal went there to run sixteen fancy rifles and shotguns and a bunch of ammo south to the cartels.
He failed.

Over the weekend, several hundred illegals from three continents mobbed the Border Patrol agents, wanting to be "detained" and claim seats on the north-bound tour buses - and incidentally, to distract the BP from those that didn't want to be detained because they were carrying loads of cocaine and fentanyl... .
 

theotherwaldo

Well-known member
Odd.
Today I saw a couple of jail transport buses heading south empty - then returning north, still empty.
Meanwhile, the fancy tour buses just keep flowing south... .
 

wiscoaster

Well-known member
Anecdotes are data - unorganized and disconnected data points to be sure, and not to be relied upon for analyses leading to definitive conclusions, but perhaps useful as clues to indicate directions to search for the rest of the undiscovered data points, and to define the fixed reference against which they can be assembled into an organized and connected data set and the control set to which they can be related so an analysis that leads to a definitive conclusion can be conducted. If a researcher ignores the anecdotes then he never finds the data set.
 
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theotherwaldo

Well-known member
=And this anecdotal data is from someone whose work station bromides a view of the main road to the collection point for illegal aliens that are apprehended in this area then I feel that it must be accepted as valid.
There is no place to park the buses on the road that passes the entrance to the holding facility so the tour buses are routed right past my front door.
If they get turned away (like the prison buses mentioned above) then it is easier to send them back up the street where I work and on to the expressway.
Simple, yet anecdotal... .
 

theotherwaldo

Well-known member
Well, if the "migrants" want to continue to enter Texas illegally then they had better be very careful.
We're having a spell of early summer La Nina weather, which means that we're having flash floods about every other day.
The arroyos are getting dangerous and the Rio itself can get downright deadly.
The CBP is pretty good at rescuing poor swimmers once they pass mid-stream but the coyotes don't like to get their feet wet... .
 
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