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What do we stand to lose? A way of life, really. Have you read the "green new deal"?
So more collecting data, but no action to reduce carbon dioxide outputs from fossil fuels. Til when? How much data is enough?
If we (the population of the planet) take action and make serious changes towards a rebalancing of the natural system, and it turns out climate change - contrary to the vast majority of data - is not man made, what do we ultimately lose?
The other option is that we keep on keeping on, and if the problem actually is man made, we not only make it much worse but possibly cause a positive feedback loop that we don't have the ability to fix.
What legacy do we want to leave behind for future generations? One of sustainability and conservation, or one of greed and destruction? I know how I feel.
What do we stand to lose? A way of life, really. Have you read the "green new deal"?
And if the CO2 isn't the culprit? You have a destroyed an economy and inflicted real misery upon the population. How very noble of you. Your faith is not enough to destroy lives.
Hello all. Firstly, I am new to NTT - found you from THR. Have to say this is the two best forums on the planet.
How is looking after the environment and climate change mutually exclusive? If you focus on the environment, remove litter, stop pollution of all forms etc. you will automatically reduce the human element of climate change. Extreme views on either side are not helpful.
Again, you expect too much destruction on the basis of faith and circular logic. As for the misery... have you- personnally- ever tried to produce foodstuffs commercially? Unless you have you would not be able to understand my reply.
Now if you will excuse me, my uncle once advised me of the foolishness of arguing religion with a zealot.
WrongHanded, you need to understand the skepticism people have of all politicians, but especially of those from the left. Their dishonesty is staggering, openly lying with the aid of the MSM. I understand that the Republicans are not blameless, either. We've been hearing about the destruction of the planet since the 70's, when an ice age was predicted. After listening to these predictions for 50 years, not one of which has come true we're dealing with a "The boy who cried wolf" situation. I've owned an energy consulting company for the past 20 years. Add to the mix that the left has no realistic energy policy and is completely lying about things such as their plans to ban fracking and AOC is proposing insanity such as banning air travel in the Green New Deal, it's no wonder thinking people don't believe them or take them seriously. If you tell me that you want clean air, land and water, I'm in. I'm also for clean energy and we've made great strides towards that and it will continue. Playing on people's fears to push the left's goals outlined in the Green New Deal falls on deaf ears, as least for me.
The left certainly is lying about fracking, and I don't know why.
The hysteria over the Green New Deal is just ridiculous.
But if you don't think things are going to get worse for life on this planet as a result of human activities around the world, you might want to (just for educational purposes) take a look at everything we've already done as a species. It's really pretty shocking, and overall we are not slowing down.
been no hysteria about the Green New Deal, other then to point out the absurdity of what the left wants to do.
Your last point is more of the fear mongering I mentioned that has been going on for 50 years. We had better implement the lefts policies or something really bad is going to happen.... in 2030, or 2040, or 2050........
You may not be hysterical about the idea of the Green New Deal, but a lot of conservatives are. And just because there's legislation written doesn't mean it will definitely pass, or pass in it's current form.
It doesn't interest me that there's been "fear mongering" about the planet for 50 odd years, as you claim. What matters is what is observable and what has been documented. Are you saying deforestation is not real? Or that we haven't overfished the oceans? Or that droughts don't fall on certain regions year after year? The DOD has confirmed that years of drought in Syria was a factor that led to their civil war. Even the DOD seems to accept climate change.
Sadly bad things have been happening to people for as long as we've been here. Sometimes it's brought on by people who are evil and sometimes it's the nature of the planet. The question is whether those things are a result of man made climate change. The left loses credibility when they attribute things that had nothing to do with climate change to it. We'll agree to disagree on this.
Tom, the droughts you can argue about to some degree, along with the floods, wildfires and tropical storms (though there's a lot of evidence our carbon dioxide output is a huge factor). But when people cut down and burn out forest, there's no question man did it. When the oceans are barren of fish because of our systematic harvesting, there's no question man did it. We're having a massive impact on the life of this planet.
When it comes to man made climate change, If you would prefer to adopt a wait-and-see approach, I'd love to know how long you'd like to wait and how bad you'd be willing to let things get. I'd love to know how much more evidence you'd need. Seriously, what more exactly do you need? What more would it take? Quantify it.
I agree that we should not over fish the oceans and I do not agree with deforestation. In regards to man made climate change I need people who are not liars with political agendas to agree with the leftists. Until then I'm for clear air, land, water and being responsible stewards for the planet God gave us, which is more than enough. Asking me how bad things need to get is another example of fear mongering.
As one step, I would like to see climate models agreeing with one another, and also accurately predicting the near future - as well as the past. That record is not good enough to be confidence-inspiring.
It is a lot to ask. But then, those who propose radical restructuring of our way of life also are asking quite a bit. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, or something like that.
At any rate, I do keep a weather eye (see what I did there?) on the topic, including a review of new developments with the models. I note that one of the newest concerns is that clouds, of all things, are interfering with modeling accuracy, and the folks in charge haven't quite figured out what to do about it. That really illustrates my concerns: the climate is enormously complicated, and in many ways we probably don't even know what we don't know. So yeah, let's keep trying to figure it all out, but let's also not make the whole country go vegan and move into city-center high-rises quite yet.
What we need to do is stay calm, anticipate that third parties will register and post seditious material to justify shutting this site down, and REPORT THEM IMMEDIATELY.
Again, I know it feels like the Republic is lost. It may be. But for now, on this site, please for the love of God stay calm, speak rationally, and hope for .... better judgement from our leaders in the future.
The coming days and weeks (likely after the 20th) will be easier, but for now we need to be on the best possible behavior. Please. :)